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Tom Curry KO....play on !

Ciaran Trainor

Ciaran Trainor


Referees in England
Very surprised and disappointed at Ben O'Keefe for allowing play to continue when Curry was clearly out very close to the play.
I know they have top class medical staff around but the fundamental rule is player safety and it took the Australian players, despite being in the ascendancy at the time, to uphold the game values and insist the ref stopped the play.
If they hadn't I'm sure he would have carried on despite clearly seeing he was out cold.
I'm sure if that happens in any of our games we would stop the play.
I wonder what his assessor said?
 
compared to the 65th minute when an unplayable & legally collapsed England maul was blown up for a straight forward HIA on the other side of the pitch, with England getting the subsequent scrum feed
 
Ciaran Trainor said:
Very surprised and disappointed at Ben O'Keefe for allowing play to continue when Curry was clearly out very close to the play.
I know they have top class medical staff around but the fundamental rule is player safety and it took the Australian players, despite being in the ascendancy at the time, to uphold the game values and insist the ref stopped the play.
If they hadn't I'm sure he would have carried on despite clearly seeing he was out cold.
I'm sure if that happens in any of our games we would stop the play.
I wonder what his assessor said?
Click to expand...
I'm in a really arsey mood today but explain to me how BOK stopping play added to player safety? Did it hasten medical attention getting on the field? Did it medically improve Curry?
 
SimonSmith said:
I'm in a really arsey mood today but explain to me how BOK stopping play added to player safety? Did it hasten medical attention getting on the field? Did it medically improve Curry?
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is there a game time for this? I assume "very close to the play" is an important consideration.
 
Dickie E said:
compared to the 65th minute when an unplayable & legally collapsed England maul was blown up for a straight forward HIA on the other side of the pitch, with England getting the subsequent scrum feed
Click to expand...
Different sitution.

In your scenario play has to be stopped as there is an unplayble maul. (legal or illegal cause is secondry point). As play is stopped, to then deal with an injury is fair enough.

In the OP there is an injury but no contravention of law so play CN continue whilst the plyer is recieving medicsl attention, with the caveat that the ref CAN stop the game if he / the medics deem it is required.
None of that says I agree wit hthe ref playing on. I've not seenthe incident so can offer no view on that. But your scenario and the actual one are very different in context.
 
Marc Wakeham said:
Different sitution.

In your scenario play has to be stopped as there is an unplayble maul. (legal or illegal cause is secondry point). As play is stopped, to then deal with an injury is fair enough.
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The point is he blew for the HIA a nano-second before he would have blown for the unplayable maul. As such England unfairly got the scrum feed
 
Ciaran Trainor said:
Very surprised and disappointed at Ben O'Keefe for allowing play to continue when Curry was clearly out very close to the play.
I know they have top class medical staff around but the fundamental rule is player safety and it took the Australian players, despite being in the ascendancy at the time, to uphold the game values and insist the ref stopped the play.
If they hadn't I'm sure he would have carried on despite clearly seeing he was out cold.
I'm sure if that happens in any of our games we would stop the play.
I wonder what his assessor said?
Click to expand...
I must admit that I found that a little odd too. My recollection is that he looked straight at Curry and still played on. Certainly I would have stopped the game if a similar thing would happen during one of my games.
 
SimonSmith said:
I'm in a really arsey mood today but explain to me how BOK stopping play added to player safety? Did it hasten medical attention getting on the field? Did it medically improve Curry?
Click to expand...
Well Simon even allowing for your arsey mood, this is a horrible and stupid take on the situation.

Curry was knocked out clean a meter away from the ruck, play moved away slightly from a prone player with a serious brain injury. The ref looks at him, he's clearly Kod. At that point he should have stopped the game. IT would have alerted the medical teams that there was a serious injury.

What damage could have been done if England pushed Aus back on top of the prone player ??

If you think that allowing the game to continue when there's a player with a brain injury lying unconscious on the ground is a good idea then you shouldnt be let anywhere near a rugby pitch!
 
SimonSmith said:
I'm in a really arsey mood today but explain to me how BOK stopping play added to player safety? Did it hasten medical attention getting on the field? Did it medically improve Curry?
Click to expand...

I don't know how the medics assess things, but seeing the (medically qualified) referee standing right next to a player take a good look and walk off might have delayed things.

I have no idea whether or not it improved anything for Curry, but it would not have made it worse to stop things - nothing unexpected happened, so at best it was no worse to play on than to stop play. Safeguarding player safety when someone is out cold and completely vulnerable and there are players milling around who might not have noticed, who might suddenly reverse play or be tackled heavily backwards... means stopping play, for me. It's not like he was lying 15m away from the action.

If the opposition players are calling on me to pause their attack for a welfare issue, I've missed something. I think you'd have to admit that it seems at the very least a bit strange for World Rugby to invest so much time and energy in educating and demonstrating improved safety around head injuries - and then have a top ref do this in a high profile match.
 
Rich_NL said:
If the opposition players are calling on me to pause their attack for a welfare issue, I've missed something. I think you'd have to admit that it seems at the very least a bit strange for World Rugby to invest so much time and energy in educating and demonstrating improved safety around head injuries - and then have a top ref do this in a high profile match.
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I do totally agree - but then again cyniocal me says WR are then saying "Ah yeah but no but yeah but no but pro rugby, that rule is for the plebs"
 
If we are going to argue "player safety", we have to be able to articulate why - which you have signally failed to do - play was moving away, and the medics at Elite level have blanket approval to come on.

Instead of being such a preachy prick, why not try answering the fucking question?
Shelflife said:
Well Simon even allowing for your arsey mood, this is a horrible and stupid take on the situation.

Curry was knocked out clean a meter away from the ruck, play moved away slightly from a prone player with a serious brain injury. The ref looks at him, he's clearly Kod. At that point he should have stopped the game. IT would have alerted the medical teams that there was a serious injury.

What damage could have been done if England pushed Aus back on top of the prone player ??

If you think that allowing the game to continue when there's a player with a brain injury lying unconscious on the ground is a good idea then you shouldnt be let anywhere near a rugby pitch!
Click to expand...
 
No idea what was gping through BOK’s mind. Maybe he misread the situation - thought Curry was lying down to keep from being pinged offside, having a nap, milking it - whatever so played on, realized belatedly that the player is out cold (and fortunately not choking) and stops.

Feels he’s been a bit of a knob, so when the HIA situation unfolds later is now sensitized to it so blows immediately?
 
SimonSmith said:
If we are going to argue "player safety", we have to be able to articulate why - which you have signally failed to do - play was moving away, and the medics at Elite level have blanket approval to come on.

Instead of being such a preachy prick, why not try answering the fucking question?
Click to expand...

Well first off ,I'm not sure why you have resorted to abusive personal insults.

The first duty of the ref is player safety.

The player was clearly knocked out and prone on the ground, he could have swallowed his tongue and not breathing. He could have had a serious neck injury.

BOK looked at him and really should have spotted that Curry was in a bad way.

Yes play had moved on from him a few metres but it could just as easily have moved back on top of him during the next phase.

Would the medics have got there any quicker if he stopped the game ? Id say marginally yes , but it would also have created a safe working space for the medics to work in.

If Curry had clearly broken his leg badly as was screaming in pain on the ground, I'm pretty sure that BOK would stop the game straight away. The fact that the player is unconscious and cant call for help means that others ie the ref have to act quickly and step in to ensure they get help asap.

What's more important ? Player safety or seeing how the next attacking phase works out ?

Less importantly the optics of leaving a player on the ground unconscious in order to facilitate not stopping a good attack are terrible and would not encourage anyone to send their son or daughter out to play the game.

It is also worrying that an inexperienced ref might see this and apply the same in an amateur game, leaving a player on the ground so that the game isn't stopped.

We're not talking about a player on the ground with a cramp here, we're talking about a player with a serous brain injury. I'm very happy to be called a "preachy prick" and stop the game if it means that a player is able to get proper medical attention if he needs it.
 
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