Spirit of the Game- Time wasting

[Dickie E]

maybe knock it out of his hands?

Possibly but its not necessary. A mere touch is sufficient:

"If the ball is touched by the referee or other non-player in in-goal, the referee judges what would have happened next and awards a try or a touch down at the place where the contact took place."

 

[crossref]

If the referee makes an attempt to control the ball is he "in possession" and thus can be tackled ?

 

[tim White]

How about "touch it down or I will 'Free Kick' you". I don't care about the other team, please don't take the p*ss. People are paying good money for you to entertain them, do not let them down.

And then please be consistent.

Ah, professional 'Sport' -don't you love it at times?

 

[Marc Wakeham]

On a slight tangent. If scrums go "off line" into resets. I tell the forwards. I'm happy to stand here for the next XZ minutes with reset after reset. Makes my life easier than trying to keep up with the wingers. Alternatively THEY can stop messing around and we game have a game for everyone. THEIR choice! THey tend to chane behaviours.

 

[Decorily]

On a slight tangent. If scrums go "off line" into resets. I tell the forwards. I'm happy to stand here for the next XZ minutes with reset after reset. Makes my life easier than trying to keep up with the wingers. Alternatively THEY can stop messing around and we game have a game for everyone. THEIR choice! THey tend to chane behaviours.

You're happy to stand there??
Wow!

 

[crossref]

How about "touch it down or I will 'Free Kick' you". I don't care about the other team, please don't take the p*ss. People are paying good money for you to entertain them, do not let them down.

And then please be consistent.

Ah, professional 'Sport' -don't you love it at times?

But why not, to the other team "come over here and challenge him or I will FK you, people are paying good money" etc

 

[Rich_NL]

How about "touch it down or I will 'Free Kick' you". I don't care about the other team, please don't take the p*ss. People are paying good money for you to entertain them, do not let them down.

And then please be consistent.

Ah, professional 'Sport' -don't you love it at times?

I disagree.

I'm not sure where in my remit as referee I've ever been expected to take "entertainment value" into account, or trained in how to adjudge it. What if I consider scrums to be unentertaining to watch? Perhaps I can start penalising teams for playing kick-tennis or forming caterpillar rucks if the tactics they choose don't appeal to me? There are enough complaints about them, after all.

But why not, to the other team "come over here and challenge him or I will FK you, people are paying good money" etc

Indeed. Since both sides are guilty of neglecting the spirit of the game, you could make the argument that the attackers aren't violating the principle of contest, but the defenders

 

[SimonSmith]

On a slight tangent. If scrums go "off line" into resets. I tell the forwards. I'm happy to stand here for the next XZ minutes with reset after reset. Makes my life easier than trying to keep up with the wingers. Alternatively THEY can stop messing around and we game have a game for everyone. THEIR choice! THey tend to chane behaviours.

"You have two options. You sort this out, or I will. My way involves penalties and cards. Over to you."

 

[Marc Wakeham]

You're happy to stand there??
Wow!

Of course not. I'm sure you understand the point though. They will get peed off with all the resets before me. It's easy cash for me. ASsI said, they tend to change behaviours.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

"You have two options. You sort this out, or I will. My way involves penalties and cards. Over to you."

Stage two, if they don't change.

 

[Shelflife]

How about "touch it down or I will 'Free Kick' you". I don't care about the other team, please don't take the p*ss. People are paying good money for you to entertain them, do not let them down.

And then please be consistent.

Ah, professional 'Sport' -don't you love it at times?

Entertaining the crowd is not in your remit, otherwise we could end up reversing a pen because a team opt to take 3 instead of going for the try.

In the OP there's no offence so you cant make one up just because what's happening is a shitshow.

Its open play, there's nothing in law to make him put the ball down any quicker.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Entertaining the crowd is not in your remit, otherwise we could end up reversing a pen because a team opt to take 3 instead of going for the try.

In the OP there's no offence so you cant make one up just because what's happening is a shitshow.

Its open play, there's nothing in law to make him put the ball down any quicker.

Nothing in the laws to say time wasting can't occur during open play.

 

[Rich_NL]

Nothing in the laws to say time wasting can't occur during open play.

The clock's running, the ball's in play. Your role as referee is not to decide their tactics.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

There is a law against time wasting.

 

[Rich_NL]

That's not an argument against my point. They have the ball, they're in open play, they're not preventing the opposition from doing anything or disadvantaging them unfairly. You just don't like their choice of tactics.

 

[crossref]

There is a law against time wasting.

WHich team do you think are time wasting ?

 

[Shelflife]

Nothing in the laws to say time wasting can't occur during open play.

Well by that logic Marc you could call a team picking and going straight to ground in the last 2 mins time wasting.

You could call a slow maul time wasting , where do you stop ?

What about where a player is held up but a tackle hasn't been completed and a maul hasn't happened ?

There's nothing in law to say that time wasting can occur in open play.

You can just make up laws because you don't like what's going on

 

[Marc Wakeham]

That's not an argument against my point. They have the ball, they're in open play, they're not preventing the opposition from doing anything or disadvantaging them unfairly. You just don't like their choice of tactics.

Well by that logic Marc you could call a team picking and going straight to ground in the last 2 mins time wasting.

You could call a slow maul time wasting , where do you stop ?

What about where a player is held up but a tackle hasn't been completed and a maul hasn't happened ?

There's nothing in law to say that time wasting can occur in open play.

You can just make up laws because you don't like what's going on

I don't like us all standing around doing nothing. The point of the game is to score points. the first it clearly intended NOT to do that! Pick and drive is a method of making progress that fit in with the extracts below. Of course they may also be used to use up time. They also run the risk of a turnover. So the two are not the same in reality.

From the Law book:
"
The object of the game is that two teams of 15, 10 or seven players each,
observing fair play, according to the laws and sporting spirit, should by
carrying, passing, kicking and grounding the ball, score as many points as
possible, the team scoring the greater number of points being the winner of the
match."

This "tactic" is not in accord with the aims of the game.

The good book goes on to say:
"
SPIRIT
Rugby owes much of its appeal to the fact that it is played both to the letter and
within the spirit of the laws. The responsibility for ensuring that this happens lies not
with one individual - it involves coaches, captains, players and referees."

For me the player in this case is not playing to the aim and, by consequence, the spirit of the game. As the player who initiated the tactic I am putting the onus on the ball carrier to sort it out.

There are a lot of things not expressly stated as illegal but that are covered in "general" wording. We are expected to think a little for ourselves. Also time wasting is not defined so again we have to make a judgemnet call.

"Acts contrarty to good sportsmanship" is AGAINST the laws. I'm not making anything up. Law references 9.27 (PK) and 9.7.d (FK)

"Carrying, passing": Both allow for a pick and drive scenario (subject to other laws about going to ground near a ruck etc)..

"Grounding the ball": suggests we do that when the opportunity presents itself.

 

[Volun-selected]

But a key factor here is this is professional sports, and as Orwell observed “Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play.”

To mix literary metaphors, professional rugby is a foreign country; they do things differently there.

And if WR were to rule officially against this, teams would find another way - maybe stroll the last 25 yds and angle toward a corner, maybe gently passing back and forth with a team mate, then slowly walk towards the posts until they’ve run the clock down which seems to be an integral tactic in 7s.

Back to the laws. I think that unless one team’s behavior adversely impacts the other’s ability to compete - and the ball is still in open play - it’s a tough sell on time wasting for 9.7d. (As a ref, we observe and enforce - the teams choose the way the game is played so my time doesn’t count when it comes to time being wasted per se, I can only enforce where the laws state they must play quickly, or have specific time limits.)

9.27 refers to the “spirit of good sportsmanship* - and if both teams are content with the farce, then what is the bad sportsmanship that I’m penalizing? The crowd may not be happy, I may not be happy, but I’m not there to enforce entertainment.

Do I like what happened? No. Am I ever likely to see it in a match at my level? No. Does this happen on a frequent enough basis that it’s a problem requiring an update? I’d say no.

 

[Balones]

I have been repeatedly told by several of our professional referees that they have been told to referee for the spectators.
I can see that a particular team’s supporters won’t mind the time-wasting as long as it benefits them but there are others to consider which are usually more numerous than those of specific teams.