Rolling subs illegally

[smeagol]

After a contentious game (ended 36-29 to the home side, losers lost the pill on the try line at the death), the home side coach said they were going to file a complaint that the visitors were rolling subs on top of what was being reported to me.

I had no ARs, and based on the jersey #s nothing aroused my suspicions. The home side does have a video setup, so if the allegations have merit, there will be video proof.

In terms of game management, I was already stretched trying to handle the game itself. My gut tells me that there is more I can do to clamp down on this, but I dont know what.

 

[Dickie E]

I'd encourage the coach to put the report. You're only one bloke & can't do everything. Let the blazers come up with a solution.
Are the teams using Rugby Xplorer?

 

[Balones]

Without a fourth official to monitor such things the advice is to put the onus on both teams to monitor the opposition as well as their own subs. And as mentioned by Dickie, up to the clubs to complain to suits if there’s an issue.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

I sympathise with you.
It is extremely difficult to manage especially in a feisty game and you're on your own as most of us are.
If teams make changes without your knowledge there is little you can do unless you are really observant. Some teams are very good at it!
You can only note what you have actually seen.
Don't beat yourself up about it and move on top next week.

 

[smeagol]

I'd encourage the coach to put the report. You're only one bloke & can't do everything. Let the blazers come up with a solution.
Are the teams using Rugby Xplorer?

Yes. In the moment, told the coach to report it if it happened and at that point it’s out of my hands.

 

[Decorily]

You facilitated a game of rugby...well done!

 

[Dickie E]

Curious about this. In some jurisdictions, is it the referee's responsibility to track substitutions? If so, do you record players' numbers going on & off or just keep track of quantity of subs?

 

[crossref]

at some point up the chain match officials control subs. Down at the weeds it's basically not the job of a solo ref - would be impossible.
Obvisously from time to time you do get involved in front row subs .

 

[Balones]

Curious about this. In some jurisdictions, is it the referee's responsibility to track substitutions? If so, do you record players' numbers going on & off or just keep track of quantity of subs?

At national league and above (L4 upwards in RFU land) it is a requirement for home clubs to appoint a fourth official to monitor such things and liaise with both clubs and the team of three if there are issues. Some/most teams have a regular club member that does this (should be aware of league regulations re subs/interchanges) or it is known for some clubs to ask the local society if they can appoint somebody. At regional level (L5, no ARs) there may be some voluntary involvement by clubs with the use of a fourth official but this is very ad hoc, however I have found that clubs at this level do tend to be a bit more assiduous in monitoring each others subs/interchanges. Below this level, as CR suggests, things get more lax as the levels go down and really impossible for a solo ref.

 

[crossref]

When I have both captains together pre game I ask them ,
how many subs do you have
Are you both happy with that ?

They are almost always happy

If not happy the captains can then discuss / agree / get their phones out and look up the regulations etc

The purpose of this, of course, is to avoid disputes during/after the game .

 

[smeagol]

At national league and above (L4 upwards in RFU land) it is a requirement for home clubs to appoint a fourth official to monitor such things and liaise with both clubs and the team of three if there are issues. Some/most teams have a regular club member that does this (should be aware of league regulations re subs/interchanges) or it is known for some clubs to ask the local society if they can appoint somebody. At regional level (L5, no ARs) there may be some voluntary involvement by clubs with the use of a fourth official but this is very ad hoc, however I have found that clubs at this level do tend to be a bit more assiduous in monitoring each others subs/interchanges. Below this level, as CR suggests, things get more lax as the levels go down and really impossible for a solo ref.

The level of this game was more akin to L5 - no ARs, no #4. The next level up (which coincidentally was the game I was AR1 for immediately prior), the clubs are encouraged to request ARs from the local society, but are not required to for a number of reasons.

 

[Dickie E]

When I have both captains together pre game I ask them ,
how many subs do you have
Are you both happy with that ?

They are almost always happy

If not happy the captains can then discuss / agree / get their phones out and look up the regulations etc

The purpose of this, of course, is to avoid disputes during/after the game .

Fair enough but how would you monitor the number of player movements during the game which i think is the issue?

 

[crossref]

Fair enough but how would you monitor the number of player movements during the game which i think is the issue?

I don't think that's up to the ref.
In my levels the interchanges are often unlimited anyway, so it doesn't arrive.
And when there is a limit I don't think anyone ever counts (no team has ever complained to me)

Number of subs is occasionally an issue , number of interchanges I can't remember ever really coming up

 

[Rich_NL]

Here rolling subs are unlimited, besides for the top two levels where it's limited to 12. Both teams get 12 tokens to hand in to a match commissioner; if (as often happens) there's no commissioner available, then it's common practice for the tokens to be handed to a member of the opposite team, an assistant coach or physio.

In your situation, I'd ask the coaches to agree to monitor each other's substitutions. If they then decide amongst themselves not to do so, there's no dispute, and otherwise they're both motivated to keep the other team playing fair.

 

[crossref]

Here rolling subs are unlimited, besides for the top two levels where it's limited to 12. Both teams get 12 tokens to hand in to a match commissioner; if (as often happens) there's no commissioner available, then it's common practice for the tokens to be handed to a member of the opposite team, an assistant coach or physio.

In your situation, I'd ask the coaches to agree to monitor each other's substitutions. If they then decide amongst themselves not to do so, there's no dispute, and otherwise they're both motivated to keep the other team playing fair.

This is a good idea. I have not heard of it ever being used in England though

 

[DocP]

Here, for the Premier matches where there is a 4O, both sides get given laminated cards where they log player off and on and reason for change. This is also signed by the teams coach. They are handed to the 4O and he then communicates over the comms when the substitution is happening to the referee at the appropriate time in play.

I'll find out this weekend what happens when there is no 4O. Only a team of 3 this weekend where I am AR2

 

[Shelflife]

There's not a lot you can do really if a team is intent on using more than their allotted rolling subs.

Sure you can track it as best you can with cards or making a note, but if they slip on a player while you are checking on an injured player then thats really on them.

 

[Mipper]

I don't think that's up to the ref.
In my levels the interchanges are often unlimited anyway, so it doesn't arrive.
And when there is a limit I don't think anyone ever counts (no team has ever complained to me)

Number of subs is occasionally an issue , number of interchanges I can't remember ever really coming up

In my area, there is a limitation on the number of exchanges made but rarely do clubs know what they are. I don’t monitor them but I do insist that each exchange is made clear to me, mostly so that I give the impression of monitoring it! Of course it is the law too.

There is also a limit (3) of the amount of players that can come on at one time, but I have never seen this as an issue, and suspect that most teams aren’t aware of this either.

Number of replacements can be an issue though and like you I put as much responsibility as possible on the captains to agree this themselves, and very, very rarely have to fall back on my input/local regs.