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Quick tap Pen/FK

A

anbocmorrua


Referees in England
I'd appreciate your thoughts on how best to manage this situation I encountered in a recent u14 juniors match.

Red tactic was to take a quick tap penalty wherever possible, then run straight at Blue, hoping that Blue hadn't retreated the full 10m before attempting to tackle the Red ball carrier or otherwise interfere with play, in order to be awarded a further penalty for not retreating 10m. Any tips on how best to position myself and manage the quick tap better, and secondly, as it felt a little cynical at that level, any tips on how to manage the situation better? It was obviously a coached tactic by Red.
 
2ndary question for interest...

If blue - through confusion/not sure cos after all they are c13 years old - does tackle red - then what?

My gut feel is still "play on, red looked for contact" but maybe a better approach (learning opportunity) is to blow to stop. Explain to both sides their responsibilities and expectation and OUTCOMES, then reset the PK - after making sure blue are 10m back .

howzat ?
 
it's a long time since I reffed U14s, but my instinct is aligned to didds -- it's tiresome that their dads are coaching them to milk penalties. Why not coach them that when they have the ball they should run, pass, evade tackles, find space and score tries?
 
Don't run at him, run past him.
If he then changes his line or tries to tackle you it's a penalty, but your not getting a cheap penalty by deliberately running into him.
 
crossref said:
it's a long time since I reffed U14s, but my instinct is aligned to didds -- it's tiresome that their dads are coaching them to milk penalties. Why not coach them that when they have the ball they should run, pass, evade tackles, find space and score tries?
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amen
 
You can also manage the situation by being a little slower making the mark, therefore the attacking team must pause before tap and go.
 
Stu10 said:
You can also manage the situation by being a little slower making the mark, therefore the attacking team must pause before tap and go.
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It's for only the 'second' PK or FK that the Laws require the referee to make a mark. Otherwise the mark is where the infringement occurred. If the attacking team select the correct place, or behind it on a line through the correct place, for the PK/FK, then the referee should allow them to go.
 
In my experience and with players older than U14, a word with the SH and Captain usually does the trick.

There is a law - I think, and certainly no-one has ever countered it on the pitch - whereby it’s a penalty offence to do anything that causes the other side to commit an offence. In layman’s terms I guess, tricking the oppo into giving away a pen.

I have never awarded a penalty for this, but certainly I have suggested that I would do unless actions changed. Seems to have worked.

All that said, I think that Didds’ post above sums up the easiest route.
 
Mipper said:
There is a law - I think, and certainly no-one has ever countered it on the pitch - whereby it’s a penalty offence to do anything that causes the other side to commit an offence. In layman’s terms I guess, tricking the oppo into giving away a pen.
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It's in law 9:

[LAWS=]Do anything that may lead the match officials to consider that an opponent has committed an infringement.[/LAWS]

This is more about play acting to fool the ref that an offence has occurred rather than inducing an opponent to commit an offence.
 
I nearly yellow carded a player for this, but he got ridiculed by his own team so much, that I thought that was punishment enough.

Scrum half takes a quick tap. Opposition prop with his back to the SH is retreating to the 10m line.
SH just runs straight into the back of him and then theatrically throws himself onto the floor, dropping the ball in the process.
I just called play on and we all went off with the play to the other end of the field, leaving the SH alone on the floor rolling around like a footballer.

By the time play stopped the physio was on just staring at the SH, who was still lying on the floor.
I ran over to him and just said, I bet you feel a bit silly now don't you? He sheepishly got to his feet and rejoined his team mates to much hilarity.
 
crossref said:
Why not coach them that when they have the ball they should run, pass, evade tackles, find space and score tries?
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Couldn’t agree more - from day one we always drilled into them ‘hit spaces, not faces’. (Though with most of them coming from American Football our other major challenge was getting them to just touch the damn ball down once in-goal.)
 
It used to be in the laws explicitly, play on where a penalty was being cynically sought out. I say "leave him blue, play on" as "play on" can be taken to mean that they can tackle.
 
Reffed a Under 15 game with a local side vs the regional select.

Red 6 was pinning down White 3 trying to roll away. I penalised Red 6 for milking the penalty. But I can't blame him as it happens all the time on TV rugby.
 
number11 said:
Reffed a Under 15 game with a local side vs the regional select.

Red 6 was pinning down White 3 trying to roll away. I penalised Red 6 for milking the penalty. But I can't blame him as it happens all the time on TV rugby.
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but 'milking a PK' isn't an offence.

if he is on the floor can you get

[LAWS=]9.15 Except in a scrum, ruck or maul, a player who is not in possession of the ball must not hold, push, charge or obstruct an opponent not in possession of the ball.[/LAWS]

or better
[LAWS=]9.17 A player must not tackle, charge, pull, push or grasp an opponent whose feet are off the ground.[/LAWS]
 
number11 said:
Reffed a Under 15 game with a local side vs the regional select.

Red 6 was pinning down White 3 trying to roll away. I penalised Red 6 for milking the penalty. But I can't blame him as it happens all the time on TV rugby.
Click to expand...

In that case, Red is slowing his own ball down, for no benefit in the contest for the ball - for continuity's sake you could just let them play on and tell him not to do it. Unless it's a niggly game and likely to lead to handbags...
 
crossref said:
but 'milking a PK' isn't an offence.

if he is on the floor can you get

[LAWS=]9.15 Except in a scrum, ruck or maul, a player who is not in possession of the ball must not hold, push, charge or obstruct an opponent not in possession of the ball.[/LAWS]

or better
[LAWS=]9.17 A player must not tackle, charge, pull, push or grasp an opponent whose feet are off the ground.[/LAWS]
Click to expand...

Can you apply Law 9.7.c:

A player must not:
Do anything that may lead the match officials to consider that an opponent has committed an infringement.
Sanction: Penalty.

Red players is trying to lead the referee to consider that white is not rolling away from the ruck.
 
Dickie E said:
It's in law 9:

[LAWS=]Do anything that may lead the match officials to consider that an opponent has committed an infringement.[/LAWS]

This is more about play acting to fool the ref that an offence has occurred rather than inducing an opponent to commit an offence.
Click to expand...

I think the pertinent wording is “do anything”, so to me this opens it right up to refs interpretation.
 
Mipper said:
I think the pertinent wording is “do anything”, so to me this opens it right up to refs interpretation.
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This is where the older referees amongst us remember why this Law was brought in, and will use it for those situations (as described by Dickie). Simple words then (understandably) start too be used differently by newer referees.
 
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