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[Law] PK Shot at goal and arrival of kicking tee. What would you do ?

C

CrouchTPEngage


Referees in England
Recent colts game I reffed. Will tell you what I did later.

Final 6 minutes of game. Red v Blue. Red are leading 19-15. I award Blue a PK , 22 metres from goal about 20 metres in from touch. So, we have a kickable penalty. But Blue are 4 points behind.
I make the mark, look over at blue captain who is in some debate with team-mates as to what they should choose. From behind me, a kicking tee is thrown and rolls to a point about 4 metres of the mark.
Aware of the laws, I say "Captain, your coach has chosen a shot at goal. Kicking tee has arrived". I point towards the posts.
He looks puzzled ; "But, Sir, that is not our kicking tee. That is red's!". I turn to look at red's coaching team who are grinning at me "Only a little joke, Sir. Sorry ! ha ha !" .
( Context :The game is a friendly colts game, hard-fought and players are taking it seriously )

What do I do now?
 
joking aside - this has to be one of the oddest rules in the Law book, enabling the coach to dictate a decision like this by sending a tee on.

The French coaching team must have wished they had sent a tee on to the pitch on one occasion on Sunday (although perhaps he would have missed anyway!)
 
OK. What I did :
I did smile. But I wasn't 100% convinced they would have said nothing if they hadnt been caught.
I move the kick 10 metres forward and let blue captain choose. He chose to kick to touch. ( They subsequently messed up their lineout anyway)
Got me thinking, if this happened in a serious game, and I believed it was a serious attempt to deceive the ref, would I have yellow-carded someone ? Can I yellow-card a coach ? Not really much of a threat is it ?
 
You can tell a coach to leave the enclosure. Not technically a RC but has same effect.

Not sure this would be serious enough to merit that though :)

You can't advance the PK though. Only an on field offence can be sanctioned on field.
 
crossref said:
Of note here 6.29.b says the kicking tee can only come on AFTER the players have indicated a kick
Click to expand...

I was thinking Law 8.20
"The intention to kick can be communicated by the arrival of the kicking tee"

EDIT
Just re-read your law reference which is more about a "person" entering the field without the referees explicit permission.
So the tee can arrive by itself to indicate a kick at goal, just that a person carrying a tee cannot enter.
How odd ! And may explain why they used to have those little electric controlled cars carrying kicking tees
:-)
 
Last edited:
CrouchTPEngage said:
I was thinking Law 8.20
"The intention to kick can be communicated by the arrival of the kicking tee"

EDIT
Just re-read your law reference which is more about a "person" entering the field without the referees explicit permission.
So the tee can arrive by itself to indicate a kick at goal, just that a person carrying a tee cannot enter.
How odd ! And may explain why they used to have those little electric controlled cars carrying kicking tees
:-)
Click to expand...

A tee on its own clearly doesn't count otherwise a spectator could throw one on and force it

So Law 6.29.b really seems to say the tee-man can only get the tee on the pitch after the decision is made
 
After the game, you can remind the Red coach of the Core Values and the poor example that they are setting.

Maybe not equally, remind yourself not to make assumptions when you didn't see the cause; and use the example to educate other referees!
 
CrouchTPEngage said:
I was thinking Law 8.20
"The intention to kick can be communicated by the arrival of the kicking tee"

EDIT
Just re-read your law reference which is more about a "person" entering the field without the referees explicit permission.
So the tee can arrive by itself to indicate a kick at goal, just that a person carrying a tee cannot enter.
How odd ! And may explain why they used to have those little electric controlled cars carrying kicking tees
:-)
Click to expand...


Some kicking tees fly well, just like a frisbee!!

RUG043-FLUO-GREEN.png
 
Last edited:
CrouchTPEngage said:
Recent colts game I reffed. Will tell you what I did later.

Final 6 minutes of game. Red v Blue. Red are leading 19-15. I award Blue a PK , 22 metres from goal about 20 metres in from touch. So, we have a kickable penalty. But Blue are 4 points behind.
I make the mark, look over at blue captain who is in some debate with team-mates as to what they should choose. From behind me, a kicking tee is thrown and rolls to a point about 4 metres of the mark.
Aware of the laws, I say "Captain, your coach has chosen a shot at goal. Kicking tee has arrived". I point towards the posts.
He looks puzzled ; "But, Sir, that is not our kicking tee. That is red's!". I turn to look at red's coaching team who are grinning at me "Only a little joke, Sir. Sorry ! ha ha !" .
( Context :The game is a friendly colts game, hard-fought and players are taking it seriously )

What do I do now?
Click to expand...

Advance the mark 10m due to unsportsmanlike behaviour by the coaching team.
 
beckett50 said:
Advance the mark 10m due to unsportsmanlike behaviour by the coaching team.
Click to expand...

law reference ? ;-)

happy to be shown I am wrong but AIUI there is no repercussion available for coaching team stupidity during a game aside from a request to leave the sidelines, with game stoppage until they do (which as CR points out in another thread may actually benefit the "transgressors" ) , and a possible refs report to society.



didds
 
It now occurs to me that the intention was not to force a kick at goal (how could that possibly be expected to work) but actually to prevent a quick tap (that would work. Indeed it DID work)

As before, I don't think you can apply an on field sanction, but I think it would be appropriate to sanction the coach (eg write a report)
 
didds said:
law reference ? ;-)

happy to be shown I am wrong but AIUI there is no repercussion available for coaching team stupidity during a game aside from a request to leave the sidelines, with game stoppage until they do (which as CR points out in another thread may actually benefit the "transgressors" ) , and a possible refs report to society.



didds
Click to expand...

The coaching team are within the "Playing Enclosure" and so subject to the same respect and sanctions as the players on the field of play.

As for a law Reference? Try Law 9.27 - a bit of leap as this refers to 'players' but see above with regard to being inside the playing enclosure
 
didds said:
law reference ? ;-)

happy to be shown I am wrong but AIUI there is no repercussion available for coaching team stupidity during a game aside from a request to leave the sidelines, with game stoppage until they do (which as CR points out in another thread may actually benefit the "transgressors" ) , and a possible refs report to society.



didds
Click to expand...

Law 6.29 has:
[LAWS]The following may enter the playing area without the referee’s permission, provided they do not interfere with play or make any comments to the match officials:
Water-carriers during a stoppage in play for an injury to a player or when a try has been scored.
A person carrying a kicking tee after a team has indicated they intend to kick at goal or a try has been scored.
The coaches attending to their teams at half-time.[/LAWS]

There's no sanction mentioned, but I could accept an argument that the coach has indeed "interfered with play" as he is forbidden to do, and so the team should be sanctioned accordingly...
 
You can sanction the coach
(Leave the playing enclosure, write a report on him)

But you can't give an on field PK for the actions of a non player
 
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