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Picking up from a ruck

Mipper


Referees in England
I am watching the Ulster the Exeter game on TV and Ross Vintcent just scored a try running a long, long way from the ruck. Effectively he was part of the ruck, picked the ball up and ran it in, impressively for five points.

Whilst TV is showing a replay of the run we hear that the TMO has checked that all was legal from the ruck.

It got me thinking, I am not entirely sure what is legal here and what is not. Can anyone enlighten me?
 
It's Guinness O Clock here in IRFUland!
Both feet behind the ball?
Was a difference between a ruck and a tackle but I think it's all treated the same now!
 
I don’t think that was what happened in the Exeter game, ie both feet behind the ball. One foot perhaps.

Hence my question.
 
Well its not really about that particular incident, its more around whether anyone on here actually knows the law in this instance.....
 
I did not see it but does 5.17 cover it? i.e. ball clearly won and available to be played.
Thanks, 15.17 is relevant to the ending of a ruck of course, but that doesn't cover who can pick the ball up, and where they should be. Or rather, where they are allowed to be.
 
I am watching the Ulster the Exeter game on TV and Ross Vintcent just scored a try running a long, long way from the ruck. Effectively he was part of the ruck, picked the ball up and ran it in, impressively for five points.

Whilst TV is showing a replay of the run we hear that the TMO has checked that all was legal from the ruck.

It got me thinking, I am not entirely sure what is legal here and what is not. Can anyone enlighten me?
Thank God for the TMO!!!!! Perhaps it should be referred to a committee to adjudicate....Woudnt want the referees decision to be honored.
 
I am watching the Ulster the Exeter game on TV and Ross Vintcent just scored a try running a long, long way from the ruck. Effectively he was part of the ruck, picked the ball up and ran it in, impressively for five points.

Whilst TV is showing a replay of the run we hear that the TMO has checked that all was legal from the ruck.

It got me thinking, I am not entirely sure what is legal here and what is not. Can anyone enlighten me?
If it's a Tackle, then one foot behind the ball is required.

If a Ruck, then a player in the Ruck may unbind and pick up the ball as long as both feet are behind the ball.
 
If it's a Tackle, then one foot behind the ball is required.

If a Ruck, then a player in the Ruck may unbind and pick up the ball as long as both feet are behind the ball.
That's how I understand it. Though no idea where I would find that defined. Laws, clarifications, guidelines, Chinese whispers, ...
 
I found it in the USAR GMGs, which is good enough for me, but I do understand that it isn't always the definitive source.
 
This thread is exactly the thread I was looking for.

15.17 When the ball has been clearly won by a team at the ruck, and is available to be played, the referee calls “use it”, after which the ball must be played away from the ruck within five seconds.

"If a Ruck, then a player in the Ruck may unbind and pick up the ball as long as both feet are behind the ball."

"You can be behind the ruck and pick up the ball, but you can't be IN the ruck and pick the ball up"


So the condition that must be satisfied for someone who WAS part of the ruck when it was formed, is that they must first find themselves in a position where both feet are behind the ball before they unbind. Unbinding at this moment means they are no longer part of the ruck and are allowed to pick the ball up that is in front of them, run with it, pass it or kick it, essentially as if they were a scrum half?

This means that the moment the player unbinds , just before picking up the ball, would also signal that the ruck has ended and the ball is in open play. Which means there is no gate any more and any defender can pick up the ball as long as they are also behind the ballz, from their perspective (EXCEPT 15.18 A player who is, or WAS part of the ruck may not play an opponent who is near it (within 1m), and who is attempting to play the ball away.)? So presumably attempting to play the ball away IS kicking or passing but NOT running with the ball - if the player who unbound , picked up the ball and ran with it maybe tackled by anyone who WAS part of the ruck regardless of whether they are within 1m of the ball carrier or not.

However, this is interesting though:

15.16 Players must not:
g. Take any action to make opponents believe that the ruck has ended when it has not.
Sanction:Free-kick.


So if my conclusion of 15.17 above is correct, then a player in the ruck who unbinds and picks up the ball could ALSO be deemed as someone who is making the opponents believe the ruck has ended when it may not have. Why? because how are the opponents to know whether the ruck has ended, they are unlikely to be able to see that he unbound when both feet were behind the ball. It's a ruck, you can't see the ball and know whose feet belong to who! As such, could or should the referee award the opponents a free kick against someone unbinding from the ruck then picking up the ball using this rule? The TMO in your example obviously disagree. If the referee shouts "use it" before the player unbinds, then obviously it signals to the opposition that the ruck has been won and any unbinding signifies open play has commenced.
 
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"This means that the moment the player unbinds , just before picking up the ball, would also signal that the ruck has ended and the ball is in open play. " - not if the ball is in front of another ruck participant's foot.
EVEN IF the ball really was right at the back of the ruck, with ony the one player keeping it in the ruck, then any other player would have to move like greased weasel s**t to be in position to pick the ball up before the unbinding player. If the ruck was only formed from two players, one from each side, then yes, as soon as one disengages to pick up the ball, then the other can do likewise.

You cannot be "attempting to play the ball away" from a ruck that is over. A carried ball is not in a ruck. A ball in or on the edge of a ruck can be passed or kicked (not forwards) away from the ruck. The pass or kick started whilst the ruck was still live, so the player passing or kicking is protected at the moment of the pass/kick. A carried ball has left the ruck, so the player is then fair game.

15.16 is to prevent players making a deliberate false action with the intent of enticing others into a material infringement: "to make ... believe". To draw a line between your previous convoluted conclusion and this Law is AI-esque.
 
What if its a caterpillar ruck and the player 3rd from the back unbinds and picks the ball up?
 
So we havea blob of bodies and thenlets say a "tail of four player call them Blob 7, 5, 3 and 8, with 7 "bound to the original "ruck" / blob. And Number 5 detaches nd picj the ball up? Ilegal for me. Players in the ruck, and the caterpillar is part of the ruck, can't pick the ball up for me only the last man or the "9" can do that.
 
What if its a caterpillar ruck and the player 3rd from the back unbinds and picks the ball up?
The moment they break their bind, they’re not part of the ruck. If the ball is under them when it happens then the ball is out. (I seem to recall this happened in a match where the last player had a really weak bind, the oppos yanked the ruck forward breaking the last player’s bind and a defender swooped on in and was allowed to play on.)

Since they normally have one foot far forward, if they want to pick the ball up, they need to then step that front foot back and get both their feet behind the ball before picking it up.

If they mean to do this then generally they’ll time it right - push back and break the bind, scoop and go. If they dither, there’s usually a hungry lock waiting.
 
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