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Outcome-deciding PT with clock in the red

S

smeagol


Referees in America
Link to stream, start around 1:40:00

Men’s D2 round of 16, so high stakes.

I haven’t seen it with audio yet, so reserving judgment.

On principle, I agree with the PT. Due to the clock being in the red, the YC loses its effectiveness.
 
It looked to me like the ref just wanted to get out of there. Penalties hadn't done it as the attacking team declined shots at goal, so without an attacking knock on, the game would still be going now.
Couldn't see it in detail but a head contact PT in a pick & go situation with bodies everywhere may have been harsh.
Perhaps some YCs earlier may have been appropriate
 
I couldn't see the offence, so have to trust that the ref was sighted.

I wonder how the debrief went,
 
Not seen a USA game before. I realise that it is some sort of Division 2 match, but how does this fit into the hierarchy of levels in the USA? Would the local ‘assessors’/players/coaches regard this overall as a good/satisfactory/poor refereeing performance?
I certainly agree with Dickie about earlier YCs being appropriate. (At least expected from my perspective.)
 
Balones said:
Not seen a USA game before. I realise that it is some sort of Division 2 match, but how does this fit into the hierarchy of levels in the USA? Would the local ‘assessors’/players/coaches regard this overall as a good/satisfactory/poor refereeing performance?
I certainly agree with Dickie about earlier YCs being appropriate. (At least expected from my perspective.)
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This is Division 2, so most players know what they're doing, even if the fitness isn't up to par 1-23.

I can't comment on the overall performance, given that I haven't seen the full match, but consensus within my society's WhatsApp group chat is that the ref was flat-footed at the end. Given the weather conditions on the day (~80F, mostly sunny), I'm not surprised everyone looked gassed in that clip.
 
I don't see a PT there, plenty of penalties but no PT.

If there are repeat offences then you start YCs, you cant give a PT for repeat offenses.
 
smeagol said:
This is Division 2, so most players know what they're doing, even if the fitness isn't up to par 1-23.

I can't comment on the overall performance, given that I haven't seen the full match, but consensus within my society's WhatsApp group chat is that the ref was flat-footed at the end. Given the weather conditions on the day (~80F, mostly sunny), I'm not surprised everyone looked gassed in that clip.
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Thanks very much. I didn’t watch all the match but dipped in and out of a good chunk of it to get a flavour of it and to look at how the ref was doing during the game. I was wondering how to assess his performance against our level of referees in a similar level/type of game. I’m not really any the wiser!:) Except to say that he wasn’t anywhere near the standard of referee that I normally observe and it looked to me that the team of three were not really used to acting as a team of three. It looked as if they were linked up because the ref looked as if he kept pushing his earpiece in, but I can’t understand if they were linked up why the ARs didn’t chip in at various incidents.
 
Balones said:
Thanks very much. I didn’t watch all the match but dipped in and out of a good chunk of it to get a flavour of it and to look at how the ref was doing during the game. I was wondering how to assess his performance against our level of referees in a similar level/type of game. I’m not really any the wiser!:) Except to say that he wasn’t anywhere near the standard of referee that I normally observe and it looked to me that the team of three were not really used to acting as a team of three. It looked as if they were linked up because the ref looked as if he kept pushing his earpiece in, but I can’t understand if they were linked up why the ARs didn’t chip in at various incidents.
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I worked this event last year, so can confirm that they were mic'd up. The referees picked for these games are either already on the National Panel, or are on that pathway.

If the center ref is who I think it is, I worked with him last year at this event, and he doesn't really respond to AR input.

From another local ref who was watching the game:

At around 60 minutes (1:1800 to 1:25:00, the defending side gave up three penalties and a YC within a 6-7 minute sequence that led to Indianapolis scoring. For the full "final drive" that led to the PT:

- a PK awarded at a LO near the attacking 22
- advantage played twice before a PK awarded
- three more penalties awarded within a 4-minute span before the PT
 
smeagol said:
I worked this event last year, so can confirm that they were mic'd up. The referees picked for these games are either already on the National Panel, or are on that pathway.

If the center ref is who I think it is, I worked with him last year at this event, and he doesn't really respond to AR input.

From another local ref who was watching the game:

At around 60 minutes (1:1800 to 1:25:00, the defending side gave up three penalties and a YC within a 6-7 minute sequence that led to Indianapolis scoring. For the full "final drive" that led to the PT:

- a PK awarded at a LO near the attacking 22
- advantage played twice before a PK awarded
- three more penalties awarded within a 4-minute span before the PT
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D2 regional already on the pathway? I don't think that's a universal - and I speak from experience. Depending on what else is going on the region, a referee can simply be the safest pair of hands around.

I'm loathe to bag the guy based solely on the video clip I watched - the bit at the end. I would love to know the 80 minute story, because part of my read was his reaction seemed not a million miles away from "FFS. I'm done with this shit, and you had enough warnings", something with which I empathize.

And in fairness to him, the video at the crucial bit isn't conclusive one way or another. So, benefit of the doubt, kinda. I hope he walks away with the appropriate learnings.
 
Lots of offsides by Red, I think I would have had a couple in the bin by the end.
Lots of chances to end the game as well.
Did I see a knock on by white and an accidental offside by white when the ball carrier ran into one of his own team in front of him.

So much to talk about in that sequence. Would a try probably have been scored but for foul play? I'm not sure it would have as there were three defenders on him. But then I'm trying to see on a video that's not great from the touchline.

Was it me or did the ref have his hand in his pocket while playing advantage, as if he had already made his mind up?
 
Phil E said:
Was it me or did the ref have his hand in his pocket while playing advantage, as if he had already made his mind up?
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Glad it wasn't just me - I think he has the YC in the raised hand as he awards the PT.
SimonSmith said:
D2 regional already on the pathway? I don't think that's a universal - and I speak from experience. Depending on what else is going on the region, a referee can simply be the safest pair of hands around.
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Two different referees - a couple years ago, my society inherited a referee on the pathway. That referee wasn't on this game, but did get a center ref assignment at this event.
 
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