Had a game recently where a clearance kick was taken from near the kicking teams 22. All of the kicking team were in front of the kicker and most of them (responding to my comms) retreated back towards their own try line. One player (who it turns out was new to the game) didn't initially respond. He was already 20m in front of the kicker and jogged towards where the ball was going to land (ignore the 10m rule for now). He eventually realised I was calling for him to stop and stood still (he hadn't been put onside at all). His presence affected play so I blew up for a penalty. My question is this. Where should I have awarded the penalty mark?
Offside in front of kicker - where is the penalty mark?
- Thread starter smudgie49
- Start date
That was my reasoning too. Generally we penalise at the location of the transgression or where it becomes material. An alternative opinion offered (by a coach) was that I could have made the penalty mark in line with where the kick was taken - i.e. approx 30m closer to the offending team's try line (since THAT was the offside line). I can see the logic in that since they were the offending team.
10.4 An offside player may be penalised, if that player:
a. Does not make an effort to retreat and interferes with play; or
b. Moves towards the ball; or
c. Was in front of a team-mate who kicked the ball and fails to retire immediately behind an onside team-mate or an imaginary line across the field 10 metres on that player’s side from where the ball is caught or lands, even if it hits a goal post or crossbar first. If this involves more than one player, then the player closest to where the ball lands or is caught is the one penalised. This is known as the 10-metre law and still applies if the ball touches or is played by an opponent but not when the kick is charged down.
Sanction: The non-offending team can choose either:
I can't remember the last time I saw an option to scrum taken in showcase rugby.
a. Does not make an effort to retreat and interferes with play; or
b. Moves towards the ball; or
c. Was in front of a team-mate who kicked the ball and fails to retire immediately behind an onside team-mate or an imaginary line across the field 10 metres on that player’s side from where the ball is caught or lands, even if it hits a goal post or crossbar first. If this involves more than one player, then the player closest to where the ball lands or is caught is the one penalised. This is known as the 10-metre law and still applies if the ball touches or is played by an opponent but not when the kick is charged down.
Sanction: The non-offending team can choose either:
- Penalty at the place of infringement; or
- Scrum where the offending team last played the ball.
I can't remember the last time I saw an option to scrum taken in showcase rugby.
Ah yes - good point re the scrum option. I'd forgotten about that. In my game I could/should have offered the scrum option to the non-offending side at the location where the ball was kicked.
scrum where they kicked it.
yes that used to be a commonly taken option, back in the day, but it died out (I think) once you could opt for the PK, kick for touch, and keep possession.
do people still offer the option? or do we just assume that the PK would be the choice
Dickie E
Referees in Australia
Well, law says place of infringement, not offside line
I always offer the option, just in case
In a 4/5/6 point game and with a dominant scrum the option might be better, equal blind and open side, with 10,11,12,13 and 14 directly behind an attacking scrum and 6 or 7 running an inside line, always used to better as line outs were a lottery, see England RWC 2015 for a low point.
But they seem to be back in favour in showcase where it seems ok allowing early breaks from line outs to pre set a maul that is considered "a great maul" and "undefendable" by the pundits who continue to miss the blatant cheating
But they seem to be back in favour in showcase where it seems ok allowing early breaks from line outs to pre set a maul that is considered "a great maul" and "undefendable" by the pundits who continue to miss the blatant cheating
Volun-selected
Referees in America
Also, I seem to recall it was a player not doing enough to get back when England took a long kick - they may have chosen the scrum where the ball was last played as it gave a huge gain in territory and put them in a good spot for a set piece play.
Yes the spot for the scrum might been as much as 50m upfield I think
And therefore wouldn't have been able to contest the QTI. He wasn't thinking very clearly
Dickie E
Referees in Australia
Yes, and inconsistent with other offside laws which have the PK mark where the miscreant should have been
DocP
Referees in England
I thought it did go out but as there was a QTI the ball wasn't "dead" and therefore he wasn't put back onside at any point and continued to move forward towards the ball. I saw something similar happen to Dombrant, I think last season (can't remember if it was for Quins or Eng)