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[Maul] Lift & maul in open play

J

jeremy

Member
In yesterday's NZ-SA match, SA tried their recent tactic of lifting in open play to set up a maul.
Unsurprisingly, it seems NZ were on the lookout for it and had a drilled response that worked - NZ countered early and effectively and won the ball from a knock-on.
The ref (Dickson?) saw nothing wrong in any of either team's actions prior to the knock-on.

Video here:

NZ's response involved players running to the back of the not-yet-formed maul, so that when the maul does form at the front, they already have players at its back.

To me that seems rather risky: if they bind after the maul has formed, they're offside (no?) - and if they bind before it has formed, they're (technically) tackling players without the ball.
(In fact, SA #2 appears to ask the ref something about holding, but is waved away.)

Am I wrong about this?
As a ref, what would you be looking at in this situation?
 
Harry said:
Does 9.3 apply ? New Zealand players are attempting to tackle the ball carrier
Click to expand...

I think it would if there is a delay. To @jeremy ‘s point, I think there is definitely an aspect of timing on this - if a defender was behind the maul and waited several seconds to join I don’t think anyone would be surprised to see them penalized under 16.5.

However, as in this example, if the defenders swarm around the attackers’ side while the BC is lifted and then get in the mix as the maul forms, I’d see that as maintaining fair competition.
 
It takes a couple of seconds to call a maul, generally, so the timing's not too risky - certainly at this level where the players are fast and the maul calls are glacial. At worst you have to skip back and get onside to join legally.

For the second point, I think as long as you're setting up the maul you're challenging for the ball - if there are people in the way you're OK, but if you're dragging players out of the maul you're playing someone off the ball. Even setting up a maul normally, the attacking support player is binding on to a defender who doesn't yet have the ball. It would be strange to penalise it.
 
I'll stick with my previous comment:
B

Post in thread 'SA open field line out move.'

  • Open Play - Open playThe period after a kick-off, restart kick, free-kick, penalty or set piece and before the next phase, or the period between phases of play, excluding when the ball is dead.
  • No maul - Maul 16.2 - It consists of a ball carrier and at least one player from each team, bound together and on their feet.
  • No tackle - Tackle 14.1 - For a tackle to occur, the ball-carrier is held and brought to ground by one or more opponents.
  • No offside line!
Step around and get into the space to compete.
  • Like
 
Volun-selected said:
I think it would if there is a delay. To @jeremy ‘s point, I think there is definitely an aspect of timing on this - if a defender was behind the maul and waited several seconds to join I don’t think anyone would be surprised to see them penalized under 16.5.

However, as in this example, if the defenders swarm around the attackers’ side while the BC is lifted and then get in the mix as the maul forms, I’d see that as maintaining fair competition.
Click to expand...
But 16.5 doesn't apply if there is no maul so I'm all for fair competition. First in blocks the ball and gets the turnover scrum.
 
It's similar to when a player goes to ground to gather the ball having maybe chased back a kick and their support arrives and forms a 'ruck' to protect the ball. Opposition usually just form up obediently at the 'OS' line.
 
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