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Knock-on at Quick Tap

T

The Fat


Referees in Australia
Blue team awarded PK 15m from green goal line and blue 9 goes to take a quick tap. He drops the ball onto his foot but instead of the ball coming from his boot and back to his hands, it hits the side of his boot and falls to the ground in front of him and he then picks the ball up and starts to run.
Knock-on or play on?
 
Play on for mine -at the end of the day it's a kick. I've seen this called like this several times in union at the highest level.
 
all about intent for me.

Was it his intent to take a kick? If so, then play on.

If not intentional (ie ball slipped out of hands) or if the ball missed his boot completely I could imagine you might get him to take it again. I can't see that it would ever be a knock-on.
 
I had something like this on Saturday but with terrible consequences. 23rd minute in midfield. 9 takes the penalty quickly, but mucks up the kick and ends up booting it up above everyone's heads. Opposition player who wasn't back 10 tip tackles the 9 (without the ball). Players rush in and then the tip tackler strikes an opponent.

RC given. His team were 10-0 down at the time, ended up losing 51-5.
 
Adam said:
I had something like this on Saturday but with terrible consequences. 23rd minute in midfield. 9 takes the penalty quickly, but mucks up the kick and ends up booting it up above everyone's heads. Opposition player who wasn't back 10 tip tackles the 9 (without the ball). Players rush in and then the tip tackler strikes an opponent.

RC given. His team were 10-0 down at the time, ended up losing 51-5.
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Was it RC without the punch?
 
I had a similar badly taken PK at a L10 league match a few years ago where the home "crowd" shouted knock on and all the jelly heads on the their team stopped -watched matey regather his piss poor kick and then hare off down the field.
 
As they need to kick the ball, it has to be a kick, so only a knock on if it touches his hands after the foot. Otherwise - just a poor kick.....
 
the shady area is where the player accidentally drops the ball onto his foot. Does that mean that the PK has been taken?

I recall a previous thread where a player took the ball to the mark and then, while surveying his options absent-mindly span the ball down onto his foot, tapping it back up into his hands again. Where upon a quick thinking member of the opposition ran 10m and - much to his surprise - tackled him. Which in turn started a fight ...

We had a lot of discussion about whether the accidental kick counted as the PK being taken ...
 
crossref said:
We had a lot of discussion about whether the accidental kick counted as the PK being taken ...
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I'm in the "no it doesn't" camp. You need intent.

Consider:
1. player shapes to take a QTI and then decides against it. Instead, he tosses the ball to his hooker to take the thrown in. Was the toss a throw in?
2. fullback dots down for a 22 then punts ball to his #10 who is on 22 to take the restart. Was the punt the restart?
 
Dickie E said:
I'm in the "no it doesn't" camp. You need intent.
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Disagree. The kick was not accidental, even though he may not have intended it to count as the PK. However it is exactly the sort of ploy that has been used to fool the opponents. Play on.

Consider:
1. player shapes to take a QTI and then decides against it. Instead, he tosses the ball to his hooker to take the thrown in. Was the toss a throw in?
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Could that be a ploy? Just possibly,but it will usually be clear that the QTI is no longer an option.
2. fullback dots down for a 22 then punts ball to his #10 who is on 22 to take the restart. Was the punt the restart?
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It is an invalid restart kick, so his team could not benefit. Not a problem. However if he was foolish enough to drop-kick it ...
 
OB.. said:
However if he was foolish enough to drop-kick it ...
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..and a team mate in front fielded/caught it before it crossed the 22m line (with a view to drop out at/around the 22) would that be an option of kick again or scrum under

[LAWS]13.13 Drop-out must cross the line [/LAWS]

or no option under

[LAWS]13.16 The kicker’s team

(a) All the kicker’s team must be behind the ball when it is kicked. If not, a scrum is formed at the centre of the 22-metre line. The opposing team throws in the ball.

(b) However, if the kick is taken so quickly that players of the kicker’s team who are retiring are still in front of the ball, they will not be penalised. They must not stop retiring until they have been made onside by an action of a team-mate. They must not take part in the game until they have been made onside in this way.

Sanction: Scrum at the centre of the 22-metre line. The opposing team throws in the ball.[/LAWS]

The law appears to never suggest a PK for being in front of the kicker and interfering? Unless perhaps the player in front was beyond the 22m line? Dunno???
 
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Lee Lifeson-Peart said:
..and a team mate in front fielded/caught it (with a view to drop out at/around the 22) would that be an option of kick again or scrum under [LAWS]13.13 Drop-out must cross the line [/LAWS] or

[LAWS]13.16 The kicker’s team

(a) All the kicker’s team must be behind the ball when it is kicked. If not, a scrum is formed at the centre of the 22-metre line. The opposing team throws in the ball.

(b) However, if the kick is taken so quickly that players of the kicker’s team who are retiring are still in front of the ball, they will not be penalised. They must not stop retiring until they have been made onside by an action of a team-mate. They must not take part in the game until they have been made onside in this way.

Sanction: Scrum at the centre of the 22-metre line. The opposing team throws in the ball.[/LAWS]

The law appears to never suggest a PK for being in front of the kicker and interfering? Unless perhaps the player in front was beyond the 22m line? Dunno???
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Its probably trying have a consistent scrum result ( or scrum option) for all 22DO kicking errors? Dunno either ??????
 
Browner said:
Its probably trying have a consistent scrum result ( or scrum option) for all 22DO kicking errors? Dunno either ??????
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I wouldn't interpret 13.16(b) to mean that a scrum is the result of non-compliance.

(b) However, if the kick is taken so quickly that players of the kicker’s team who are retiring are still in front of the ball, they will not be penalised. They must not stop retiring until they have been made onside by an action of a team-mate. They must not take part in the game until they have been made onside in this way.

The part in bold is pretty clear that the retiring players will not be penalised PROVIDING they continue to retire until they are onside or have been put onside by a team mate. If they are retiring and the 22 DO is taken when they are still say 5m in front of the kicker and they then immediately about face and hoof it up field, ahead of their mates who were onside, they are liable to a penalty kick sanction not a scrum.

They will only escape penalty if they continue to retire and take no part in the game until onside again.
 
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