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It'll never happen

Phil E

Phil E


Referees in England
Staff member
We get a lot of Choperesque questions on this forum (more and more it seems) that would make most of us say "it'll never happen, don't worry about it".

I wonder if a golf forum has ever been asked, "what happens if you hit your tee shot and it lands in a spectators pocket?"

Rory McIlroy hits shot into spectators pocket
 
That's why I call that game swish......f��✊k it!

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That's why I call that game swish......f?✊k it!
 
he still managed par on the course !

so, I was left confused, did he get a free drop, or did the drop count as a stroke
 
I think it was a free drop, like you would get from a sprinkler head, or some other man made type of feature.
 
If the guy had taken it out of his pocket and dropped it on the floor where he stood, I wonder if McIlroy would have been told to drop it again, or would he have played it where it lay.
 
Browner said:
Aren't you supposed to retrieve your own ball ?
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it's funny, I think that crossed the mind of the official in the clip - he asked which pocket the ball was in. I think he was minded to tell RM to fish it out, and then thought better of it.
 
Browner said:
Aren't you supposed to retrieve your own ball ?
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No,if the spectator does it, he's an outside agency and RMcI can play it from where it's dropped. If RMcI does it, there's be a penalty stroke or two.

Every official Decision and Rule of golf in the R&A app – over 1,300 in all. Some of them you wouldn't believe, like there's a difference between manufactured ice and natural ice; so someone has probably asked it before.
 
so what would have happned if the spectator had taken the ball out of his pocket and lobbed it onto the fairway, 50m closer to the hole?
 
crossref said:
so what would have happned if the spectator had taken the ball out of his pocket and lobbed it onto the fairway, 50m closer to the hole?
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That could be a tricky one.

If the ball has stopped and is then moved by some other external factor (not wind), then you replace it close as you can to the spot without penalty.

If the the ball is 'in motion' and is deflected off something then it is 'play it as it lies'. For eg, if it hits a spectator on the head and bounces back out into the fairway, then play it where it finished up.

So if the spectator immediately took it out of his pocket and dropped it then play it as it lay. If he took it out and threw it, then they would come back to the spot where the spectator was standing and take a drop as the ball was not in motion when it stopped in his pocket. No penalty in either case.

Had the spectator been walking at the time and kept walking (ball in motion?) and then dropped it out of his pocket....then I'd say the ball was deemed to stop motion when it landed in the pocket and so you'd go back to the spot where it landed in the pocket and take a drop.
 
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Phil E said:
I think it was a free drop, like you would get from a sprinkler head, or some other man made type of feature.
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Not that commentators always know what they're saying, but on RMcI shot after the drop, he says: "Would be nice if ha made birdie".
So I'll vote for free drop too...
 
menace said:
That could be a tricky one.

If the ball has stopped and is then moved by some other external factor (not wind), then you replace it close as you can to the spot without penalty.

If the the ball is 'in motion' and is deflected off something then it is 'play it as it lies'. For eg, if it hits a spectator on the head and bounces back out into the fairway, then play it where it finished up.

So if the spectator immediately took it out of his pocket and dropped it then play it as it lay. If he took it out and threw it, then they would come back to the spot where the spectator was standing and take a drop as the ball was not in motion when it stopped in his pocket. No penalty in either case.

Had the spectator been walking at the time and kept walking (ball in motion?) and then dropped it out of his pocket....then I'd say the ball was deemed to stop motion when it landed in the pocket and so you'd go back to the spot where it landed in the pocket and take a drop.
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That is just about word-for-word what I would have said. You must have done your "Rules Official" ticket?

Here's one of only two that I got wrong in my exam...

A player tees off on a Par 3. The ball is seen to fly near a tree, but no-one sees what actually happened to it. As the playing group pass under the aforementioned tree, the ball (which had, unbeknownst to anyone, lodged in the tree) is then dislodged by a gust of wind, falls out of the tree and strikes the player it belongs to.

What is the ruling, and why?

Note: the rule changed in 2008.
 
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Guy goes into the doctor’s. “Doc, I’ve got a cricket ball stuck up my backside.”

“How’s that?”

“Don’t you start.”
 
Ian_Cook said:
That is just about word-for-word what I would have said. You must have done your "Rules Official" ticket?

Here's one of only two that I got wrong in my exam...

A player tees off on a Par 3. The ball is seen to fly near a tree, but no-one sees what actually happened to it. As the playing group pass under the aforementioned tree, the ball (which had, unbeknownst to anyone, lodged in the tree) is then dislodged by a gust of wind, falls out of the tree and strikes the player it belongs to.

What is the ruling, and why?

Note: the rule changed in 2008.
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No ticket...just a keen golfer that has been bitten by the rules from more knowledgeable wily golfers that talked me into a ruling that was not to my advantage and so I try to know them.

Not 100% sure on this one. This issue is not the wind blowing the ball after it came to rest. You can assume that the time it took for the group to get under the tree the ball must have stopped in the tree for some time, and it is very certain that the ball moved from the wind! So normally you would expect to just play it as it lies as the wind had moved the ball. The issue now is that it struck the player, and this could be a penalty, BUT in this situation I would say he was 'searching' (in an obstruction ie tree) for the ball and so the movement of the ball by the player was obviously not intentional. If it was a ball at rest and unintentionally moved by the player during the 'search', it would be a replaced without penalty. The next factor to consider is the placing. It is not practical to put it back in the tree, plus it was moved by wind, so you play it as it lies. Also when a ball hits a player is is supposed to be replaced - but it didn't have a lie? So in this instance I would rule that the player takes a drop (no closer to the hole) at the point the ball hit him.

How's that sound?
 
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menace said:
No ticket...just a keen golfer that has been bitten by the rules from more knowledgeable wily golfers that talked me into a ruling that was not to my advantage and so I try to know them.

Not 100% sure on this one. This issue is not the wind blowing the ball after it came to rest. You can assume that the time it took for the group to get under the tree the ball must have stopped in the tree for some time, and it is very certain that the ball moved from the wind! So normally you would expect to just play it as it lies as the wind had moved the ball. The issue now is that it struck the player, and this could be a penalty, BUT in this situation I would say he was 'searching' (in an obstruction ie tree) for the ball and so the movement of the ball by the player was obviously not intentional. If it was a ball at rest and unintentionally moved by the player during the 'search', it would be a replaced without penalty. The next factor to consider is the placing. It is not practical to put it back in the tree, plus it was moved by wind, so you play it as it lies. Also when a ball hits a player is is supposed to be replaced - but it didn't have a lie? So in this instance I would rule that the player takes a drop (no closer to the hole) at the point the ball hit him.

How's that sound?
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I came to a similar conclusion, that it was no penalty, and the player would play the ball where it fell. It was wrong.

Its a case of a player being struck by his own ball, which was in motion. The rules make no distinction between this and a ball that ricochets off a tree or other object, and strikes the player, his equipment or caddie (or in the case of a pairs competition, his playing partner, equipment or caddie).

It was, at the time I sat the exam, a two stroke penalty and the ball is played as it lies (wherever it rolls to). In 2008, this was reduced to a one stroke penalty. (Rule 19-2)
 
Ian_Cook said:
I came to a similar conclusion, that it was no penalty, and the player would play the ball where it fell. It was wrong.

Its a case of a player being struck by his own ball, which was in motion. The rules make no distinction between this and a ball that ricochets off a tree or other object, and strikes the player, his equipment or caddie (or in the case of a pairs competition, his playing partner, equipment or caddie).

It was, at the time I sat the exam, a two stroke penalty and the ball is played as it lies (wherever it rolls to). In 2008, this was reduced to a one stroke penalty. (Rule 19-2)
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Bugger. My first thought was penalty shot for it hitting him, but it didn't seem equitable when it was stopped and flew out of no where without warning.

So if the player was searching for his ball in a hazard or obstruction it's ok to move it (unintentionally) provided the ball was not in motion.
 
its so completely the OPPOSITE of what common sense would tell you ...

- walk around searching for your ball and accidentally kick it : Instinct would tell me that's a penalty (bad luck, be more careful next time)
- passing under a tree and your ball falls on to your head : Instinct (and fair play!) would tell me no penalty, but WTF? it's 1 stroke.
 
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