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Holding

B

BikingBud


Referees in England
Leinster v Northampton today around 25 mins, Leinster player goes to ground with ball elevated and in one hand. Holds this position for perhaps 3-4 seconds before Blue 7 comes around and then passes the ball to Blue 7 who scores a try.

Given that 14.7 advises the ball must be played immediately, Is tolerance for holding the ball on the floor becoming too lax and going the team in possession too much leeway.
 
This one?

It’s close but the BC is looking to offload and I think gets it away before a defender has a chance to take it.

Since the BC didn’t stop a defender playing the ball I think that’s why the ref let it go.
 
if itsb not contested for when its being held in the air whats the issue?

If its not contrested when the opo play it - no issue

we cant expact players to keep the game flowing then stop them from maximising that opportunity.
 
Volun-selected said:
This one?

It’s close but the BC is looking to offload and I think gets it away before a defender has a chance to take it.

Since the BC didn’t stop a defender playing the ball I think that’s why the ref let it go.
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But they did there was a Saints defender on feet looking to compete, the blue player that overran and then got in the ruck space.

Different angles provide differnt perspectives:
1746362404635.png1746362077336.png1746362181384.png

Be interesting if green 12 had gone round the blue side in the same manner as the blue player has gone around the green side to block the green defender from competing whilst the ball is being held. As it happened he went to go through the gate rather than blocking the delayed pass off the ground.
 
I find it interesting how the foreshortening effect of the zoom lens makes it look like B14 is right on top of the play, but the wider angle of the video takes him further from the action.

If the highlights had just shown the angle as shown by the still in the post by @BikingBud , I think we’d all be having a very different conversation.
 
BikingBud said:
So how long is "immediately"?
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no formal definition so I guess it’s down to your judgement - get on with it and don’t be a prat.

Also, the ball just has to be available immediately. If any defender had got there and the BC was doing anything that stopped them taking the ball - that’s an offense.

As long as the ball is available he can hold it up or on the ground as long as it takes for another player to get on scene, or for the BC to put the ball down and get back on their feet to play on.
 
Had this argument watching with friends.
When we watched in real time it looked wrong and the player was holding the ball for a long time however when reading the law did the player make the ball available immediately the answer is yes it was clearly there for everyone. The fact that the opposition were slow to get to it for me means play on.
 
Ciaran Trainor said:
Had this argument watching with friends.
When we watched in real time it looked wrong and the player was holding the ball for a long time however when reading the law did the player make the ball available immediately the answer is yes it was clearly there for everyone. The fact that the opposition were slow to get to it for me means play on.
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Agree. He didn't make the ball unavailable so play on
 
Marc Wakeham said:
As soon as an oppo player contests "immediately" is gone.
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Generally:
For a ball that is kicked through, going to ground and staying there, how long is immediately?

Releasing the tackled player how long is immediately?

I am not sure applying a timing trombone that requires action from opponents is reasonable.

Immediately means; at once, instantly, without delay, not only when pressured to do so.

On this occasion, if the ball is released and placed on the ground, immediately, ie no delay, then the defenders have a focus, a target to compete over and not a ball being held aloft and waved around. VDF doesn't run the line and get outside the defence. Instead he has to go in to compete over the ball and the defenders can adjust or compete, the momentum isn't sustained by ambiguous application of a law.

Saying it is immaterial is akin to the current farce we have around squint lineouts and squint scrum feeds.
 
BikingBud said:
Generally:
For a ball that is kicked through, going to ground and staying there, how long is immediately?

Releasing the tackled player how long is immediately?

I am not sure applying a timing trombone that requires action from opponents is reasonable.

Immediately means; at once, instantly, without delay, not only when pressured to do so.

On this occasion, if the ball is released and placed on the ground, immediately, ie no delay, then the defenders have a focus, a target to compete over and not a ball being held aloft and waved around. VDF doesn't run the line and get outside the defence. Instead he has to go in to compete over the ball and the defenders can adjust or compete, the momentum isn't sustained by ambiguous application of a law.

Saying it is immaterial is akin to the current farce we have around squint lineouts and squint scrum feeds.
Click to expand...
We'll agree to differ.
 
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