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Grounding the ball unintentionally

shep

Member
Does there have to be intent for a player to ground the ball?

With reference to this try in France (on Reddit)

Pink half back looks like he meets the requirements of 21.1. But then it's play on, presumably because the ref thought he was picking up the ball, even though he didn't ever pick up the ball?

The ball can be grounded in in-goal:
a. By holding it and touching the ground with it; or
b. By pressing down on it with a hand or hands, arm or arms, or the front of the player’s body from waist to neck.
21.2 Picking up a ball is not grounding it. A player may pick up the ball in in-goal and ground it elsewhere in in-goal.
 
Does there have to be intent for a player to ground the ball?

With reference to this try in France (on Reddit)

Pink half back looks like he meets the requirements of 21.1. But then it's play on, presumably because the ref thought he was picking up the ball, even though he didn't ever pick up the ball?

If you'd have blown up for a scrum yellow the moment the ball touched the line, you wouldn't have been thanked by either team or anyone in the crowd. I think in practice, if not by the letter of the law, some degree of intent is needed.
 
Also what about "Hands in the ruck"
absolutely!

otherwise
Ooo. That is interesting. Cos
if the ball is not on the line, the ruck is not over and yellow is offside - ball has not been lifted
If the ball is on the line then Id go with pink is holding it so its touched down.

Referee brain fart?
 
[QUOTE="didds, post: 397242,

Referee brain fart?
[/QUOTE]
No, I think the ref got it right. Otherwise a player would never be able to pick the ball in his own in-goal without conceding a scrum or TLDO
 
[QUOTE="didds, post: 397242,

Referee brain fart?
No, I think the ref got it right. Otherwise a player would never be able to pick the ball in his own in-goal without conceding a scrum or TLDO
[/QUOTE]


Very good point Dickie - thankyou. In which case I'm with you.
 
'Hands in the ruck'....no.
Conventionally we do not penalise this action....no contest, ball clearly won etc. Get on with the game.

Did defender dummy a pass/pick?
Why did referee signal a penalty to defenders??
 
It is, but doesn't he actually have to pick it up for that part of the law to apply?
I have absolutely no idea...good question.

However it looks like the referee in this case had an opinion and I guess that's all that matters!
 
Ball stationery in-goal and attacking player about to dive on it for a try. Desperate defender gets there first & intentionally knocks ball along ground and over DBL. Has he grounded the ball for a restart? I wouldn't have thought so. PT & card for me
 
Ball stationery in-goal and attacking player about to dive on it for a try. Desperate defender gets there first & intentionally knocks ball along ground and over DBL. Has he grounded the ball for a restart? I wouldn't have thought so. PT & card for me
Doesn't meet the requirements for a grounding does it, unless he presses down on the ball in the process? So yep. Penalty etc
 
The scrum half should have remembered that once the ball touches the line the ruck is over, and picked it up to either attempt to kick, or pass back for another player to play, or dab it straight back down to ground it. Two attacking players did remember, saw the ball go in-goal and went for it as soon as the offside lines disappeared.

Ball stationery in-goal and attacking player about to dive on it for a try. Desperate defender gets there first & intentionally knocks ball along ground and over DBL. Has he grounded the ball for a restart? I wouldn't have thought so. PT & card for me
Would have to be clearly a deliberate action to be penalized. If they’re diving for the ball they my be able to sell it as “I tried to ground it”
 
No sorry this is the farce that arises from caterpillar rucks and law drift. I get the scrum half must recover the ball from the ruck and this will entail picking but this really was excessive. I mean we are in pantomime season here.

Pink 9 has leant in with his right hand, started to pull the ball back, then leant in with the left hand and had a couple of rolls backwards with it whilst the caterpillar grows another body.

Then he has both hands on it:
Screenshot 2025-12-04 at 14.29.21.png

Rolls it a bit more and then tries to position it in between the feet of the last player. But then requires another roll with both hands and finally there is a slight lift and place when on the Try Line.

So taken back by Pink - no dispute

Those feet are in goal and the ruck is over, no offside line and yellow can come and touch down.

15.19 - The ruck ends and play continues when the ball leaves the ruck or when the ball in the ruck is on or over the try line.

Being benevolent the referee might have found that is was touched down:

21.1 - The ball can be grounded in in-goal:
a. By holding it and touching the ground with it

or awarded the 5 m scrum:

21.17 - If there is doubt about which team first grounded the ball in in-goal, play is restarted with a five-metre scrum, in line with the place where the ball was grounded. The attacking team throws in

However I'm kinda in full support of the decision here, if the Pink 9 is not aware and the ball is in goal then Yellow can play and did to their advantage.

Let's stop some of these charades and apply the Laws - No further additions to the ruck after:

15.17 - When the ball has been clearly won by a team at the ruck, and is available to be played, the referee calls “use it”, after which the ball must be played away from the ruck within five seconds.

Biking Bud the caterpillar killer
 
Defenders picking up a ball from ingoal is specifically different from touching it down in law.
But he lifted and placed it back down.

If he had lifted and passed or lifted and kicked I would support but the clip shows he lifted and placed in goal.
 
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