France v Wales - playing the SH
- Thread starter Dickie E
- Start date
Ciaran Trainor
Referees in England
If I recall, he did see it but let it go as the welsh then let go. so didn't stop play and the game was already won.
Good reffing for me.
Good reffing for me.
Dickie E
Referees in Australia
Might be a different incident. The SH had to execute a very difficult backhand pass while still being grasped which fortunately landed with the #10
Marc Wakeham
Referees in Wales
Sounds like the offence was not material so play on was a good call.
Dickie E
Referees in Australia
It really was material. Did you see it?
Marc Wakeham
Referees in Wales
No, which is why I said sounds like from the various posts here. Yes, the look may make a difference.
I do t think 16.18 applies.
The SH goes digging for the ball, and becomes part of it. He is then captured by the red player before he is clearing the ball.
Think it's the right call. For me 16.18 can only apply if you aren't caught or bound to the maul
Dickie E
Referees in Australia
An interesting point but not one I agree with. If the SH goes digging for the ball, as opposed to joining the maul by binding onto other players, then he remains protected under 16.28 ... IMO
If the SH joins the maul I agree but being caught tends to infer that they were dragged in ergo someone is playing the SH.
As we seem to let scrum halves lift and reposition the ball in the caterpillar with impunity why would you consider that retrieving a ball held in a maul makes them fair game?
As we seem to let scrum halves lift and reposition the ball in the caterpillar with impunity why would you consider that retrieving a ball held in a maul makes them fair game?
I don't think it's reasonable for the ref or opposition to have to guess if a player is binding on with a full arm on the maul, or digging for the ball with their full arm on the maul, your part of the maul either way, and can then be dragged in by Oppo.
If the ball is at the back, ready to be cleared and the nine (or whoever) just needs hands on it to get it out, then 16.18 applies -for me anyway
Marc Wakeham
Referees in Wales
If he is "digging", then there can be no bind. Therefore, he is clearly not part of the ruck / maul.
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I just disagree with that.
The circumstances here. blue had the ball, but red had come though and legally got their hands on it.
The blue half entered the maul by binding on his own player, and then ripped the ball from both the his own player, and the opposition. That's what digging for it here means. He's clearly fulfilled the requirements to be bound to maul while doing it. It's all legal.
Marc Wakeham
Referees in Wales
So it is hands in the ruck PK.
Harry
Active member
I thought it was a maul ?
I think a management call of leave the 9 would have been useful. That said, the law for not playing the 9 doesn't apply if they voluntarily join the maul and its not clear and obvious to me that he doesn't do that in order to gain possession of the ball that wasn't cleanly available at that point. Just my opinion though
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Marc Wakeham
Referees in Wales
Looking at the clip (yes we are talking maul). Wales arer clearly playing the 9. However, The ref is probably allowing things to breath. Clearly France are likely to score there was no material effect. Play on was a good call for me
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One could argue either way that he has joined the maul or remains the #9.
For me if you're trying to clear the ball and it's legally being contested...then surely you are now part of the maul.
Incredible work for him to get the pass away.