13.1 Players going to ground in open play

[shep]

Reds in white v Crusaders in red. From around 24:45 on the match clock (there are replays after the try too)

White with a passing movement from inside their own 22. Red collides with the ball carrier and the ball comes loose.

Red "tackler" falls over after contact, and then rolls onto and over the loose ball. He then grabs it and makes it available immediately.

My question with reference to law 13.1..... Does the player gathering a loose ball like this have to have gone to ground "to" gather the ball, or can he go to ground as a result of a tackle, and then gather the ball once he is on the ground (perhaps illegal under 13.3?)

 

[crossref]

I think the law as written makes that illegal.
(But it probably wasn't the sort of thing that the law makers envisioned when they wrote the law)

 

[BikingBud]

Initially there is the Knocked Forward -

11.2 - It is a knock forward when a player, in tackling or attempting to tackle an opponent, makes contact with the ball and the ball goes forward. Sanction: Scrum

We've been round this enough times now but just for completeness:

Knock forward- When a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it. [previously knock-on]

Came off Red's bicep and then

13.3 - A player on the ground in the field of play, without the ball is out of the game and must:

a. Allow opponents who are not on the ground to play or gain possession of the ball. Sanction: Penalty.

b. Not play the ball. Sanction: Penalty.

But Super Rugby Showcase "Rules" make our application look extremely stringent and inflexible.

Edit to Add:

As an aside I wondered where the ref was positioned to see what occurred and to enable a decision to be made. Who decided the referee's shirt colour, whilst it might stand out in some aspects in other he is completely indistinguishable:






Not the quality of match admin, observation and decision making one would expect for such a high profile game in a high profile competition.

But back to the original point Scrum to white, but not the ref!

 

[didds]

I think the law as written makes that illegal.
(But it probably wasn't the sort of thing that the law makers envisioned when they wrote the law)

This entirely.

IANAR. For me - play on. its positive play from a dynamic situation. I appreciate other will undoubtedly disagree and i can see the reasoning why. Its not a hill I will die on!

 

[didds]

Initially there is the Knocked Forward -



Came off Red's bicep and then

Bicep is a moot call for me. Its just as much shoulder.

Again. not a hill I'll die on. But good spot!

 

[Dickie E]

I expect i would have gone knock on

 

[Volun-selected]

Hard to tell whether the ball came forward off the bicep or of the edge of the chest so I can see why it wasn’t called as a knock on.

He then tumbles onto the ball, as soon as he gains control of himself he grabs the ball but he immediately presents it and makes it playable so - if you see that as a player on the floor playing the ball you’d penalize but if you see that as a player gathering the ball and making it available you’d play on.

I’m ok with the try - forward off chest then gathered and made available. Can also accept if others see it differently.