Quick restart

Should ref allow play to continue?

  • Yes. Play recommences as soon as Blue takes the restart. Law is silent on fresh ball

    Votes: 4 10.5%
  • No. Bring players back as Blue has taken an unfair advantage using a new ball

    Votes: 34 89.5%

  • Total voters
    38

crossref

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#41
It was the same ball - it was a junior match, probably U15 or U16, I can't recall.

Whether I was technically right or wrong, the consensus seemed to be that I was a prat .. not in touch with the spirit of the game :)
 

OB..

, Advises in England
#42
It was the same ball - it was a junior match, probably U15 or U16, I can't recall.

Whether I was technically right or wrong, the consensus seemed to be that I was a prat .. not in touch with the spirit of the game :)
So Blue tok it quickly but then agreed you were a prat?! If they did not think it was allowed, why did they do it?

Does consensus at one Youth game really decide the issue? What will you do if it happens in a senior match, you disallow it, and the kicking team thinks you are a prat?
 

crossref

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#43
I don't know OB, it's a hard one to pin down and every situation is different, but it was one of those occasions where I didn't feel I had handled it correctly.
In BOTH teams there were individuals who were paying attention and realised the restart had been taken
in BOTH teams there were individuals who weren't paying attention and didn't realise
in BOTH teams there were players who were expecting me to blow my whistle, and other players who weren't

Overall, it felt like a bit of a mess, and a try was scored almost unopposed under the posts. So it's a seven-pointer.

Blue were happy with their seven points, but they didn't all necessarily think it was good refereeing.

Nowadays I think I would be more likely to choose one of these options
1 - the kick off was being taken unreasonably fast, peep : take it again
2 - the oppo were being unreasonably slow to get ready : if it's just laziness, time off and warning, if it's cynical then a FK.
 
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OB..

, Advises in England
#44
I don't know OB, it's a hard one to pin down and every situation is different, but it was one of those occasions where I didn't feel I had handled it correctly.
In BOTH teams there were individuals who were paying attention and realised the restart had been taken
in BOTH teams there were individuals who weren't paying attention and didn't realise
in BOTH teams there were players who were expecting me to blow my whistle, and other players who weren't

Overall, it felt like a bit of a mess, and a try was scored almost unopposed under the posts. So it's a seven-pointer.

Blue were happy with their seven points, but they didn't all necessarily think it was good refereeing.

Nowadays I think I would be more likely to choose one of these options
1 - the kick off was being taken unreasonably fast, peep : take it again
2 - the oppo were being unreasonably slow to get ready : if it's just laziness, time off and warning, if it's cynical then a FK.
Being on teh horns of a dilemma is painful, and it is all down to the major defects in Law 13.

Personally I would allow it, and make sure everybody knew it was a valid kick-off. Howevr I would not mark a referee down for taking a different view - just note the problem in the report.
 
#45
OB, are you favouring that Law should be fixed in it's permission, ( ie you can, or you can't)

or that law should include contextual judgement on this quick restart scenario ?

IIUC this is the crux of this thread.
 

crossref

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#46
of course there is always judgement -- at the one extreme, if red are all lined up and ready except their winger who is chatting to his girlfriend and not paying attention --- then the restart is clearly in order.
 

OB..

, Advises in England
#47
OB, are you favouring that Law should be fixed in it's permission, ( ie you can, or you can't)

or that law should include contextual judgement on this quick restart scenario ?

IIUC this is the crux of this thread.
My view is that a quick restart ought to be allowed. I see no valid reason why the non-kicking team should be allowed to delay it (provided the same ball is used, of course).
 

didds

, Resident Club Coach
#48
IMO...

- wrt supplied/new ball at centre... what is to stop a team still using the "old" ball and ignoring the new one iof they want to start quickly.
- wrt at a PK the attackers are further up the field versus conversion where they are already behind the centre line... if the PK at goal is missed and ball goes dead, this is a 22 d/o. Should the defenders not be permitted to take the 22 d/o quickly, maybe with a long kick as the attackers have left a lot of space back there? If so - what's the difference?

didds
 

Nigib

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#49
I've only seen this once in ten years coaching and twelve as referee. An U15 cup quarter final. Gold scored a penalty from just outside the 22, players then jogged not slowly back towards and into their half. Red raced back to the centre with the ball and restarted; most of Gold not ready/aware, Red got the ball from the restart and scored. Problem was that the kick was taken several metres into Gold's half and Red were running and almost at the ten metre line when the ball was kicked. Ref allowed it. And it didn't help matters that he was a first team player for Red's club, and this was his first ever time in the middle.
 

Simon Thomas

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#50
I've only seen this once in ten years coaching and twelve as referee. An U15 cup quarter final. Gold scored a penalty from just outside the 22, players then jogged not slowly back towards and into their half. Red raced back to the centre with the ball and restarted; most of Gold not ready/aware, Red got the ball from the restart and scored. Problem was that the kick was taken several metres into Gold's half and Red were running and almost at the ten metre line when the ball was kicked. Ref allowed it. And it didn't help matters that he was a first team player for Red's club, and this was his first ever time in the middle.
Oh dear.

I hope he was made aware of his errors.
 

Nigib

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#51
It was not the only 'issue'; there were actually what seemed an endless string of questionable (despite the first sentence in 6a4a) decisions and Red won. Gold had to put up with it as a 'learning' experience (see recent 'Rant' thread), the ref disappeared before Gold coaches could engage in any discussion. But the management of the match was appropriately escalated through the local Society.
 

crossref

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#52
OK - it's a different sport, but still an interesting parallel - a surprise restart in football.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/02/gibraltar-u16s-macedonia-goal-celebrations


This was allowed on the grounds that the opponents were all inside their own half (after their score they had run back to their own half to celebrate with their subs).

IE this echoes the logic argued by some on this thread - you don't have to wait for the opponents to be ready to restart, but you can't restart unless they are all behind the 10m line.
 
#53
An interesting example Crossref, good spot.

Or .... don't celebrate in your own half ! ( nice to see the referee YC the Red player who then pleasenabbed and held onto the ball preventing Whites from restarting)
 
#54
I've only seen this once in ten years coaching and twelve as referee. An U15 cup quarter final. Gold scored a penalty from just outside the 22, players then jogged not slowly back towards and into their half. Red raced back to the centre with the ball and restarted; most of Gold not ready/aware, Red got the ball from the restart and scored. Problem was that the kick was taken several metres into Gold's half and Red were running and almost at the ten metre line when the ball was kicked. Ref allowed it. And it didn't help matters that he was a first team player for Red's club, and this was his first ever time in the middle.
a veritable receipe for a Cook Up