Quick restart

Should ref allow play to continue?

  • Yes. Play recommences as soon as Blue takes the restart. Law is silent on fresh ball

    Votes: 4 10.5%
  • No. Bring players back as Blue has taken an unfair advantage using a new ball

    Votes: 34 89.5%

  • Total voters
    38

Dickie E

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#1
Red are awarded a penalty on Blue 22 and elect to take shot at goal. Kick is successful and as referee awards the score a ball boy runs to the middle of the halfway with a fresh ball ready for the restart.

As Red are retiring to their half and still out of position the Blue team rush to the halfway and take a quick restart with the fresh ball.
 

TigerCraig

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#2
No, Law 2.6

"Spare balls may be available during a match, but a team must not gain or attempt to gain an unfair advantage by using them or changing them."
 

OB..

, Advises in England
#4
Red are awarded a penalty on Blue 22 and elect to take shot at goal. Kick is successful and as referee awards the score a ball boy runs to the middle of the halfway with a fresh ball ready for the restart.

As Red are retiring to their half and still out of position the Blue team rush to the halfway and take a quick restart with the fresh ball.
I agree, that scenario is obviously illegal.

However the problem does seem to imply that Blue could use the original ball to restart before Red were ready. That proposition has been discussed in the past with no agreement being reached.
 
#5
However the problem does seem to imply that Blue could use the original ball to restart before Red were ready. That proposition has been discussed in the past with no agreement being reached.
Provided same ball is used AND considering that the clock is still running, why shouldn't the team wishing to get on with the game be prevented from doing so by the procrastinations of the other?..... This ideology seems to dovetail with all other QTI, QTP, QFK thinking, I think i'd let them.
 

OB..

, Advises in England
#6
Provided same ball is used AND considering that the clock is still running, why shouldn't the team wishing to get on with the game be prevented from doing so by the procrastinations of the other?..... This ideology seems to dovetail with all other QTI, QTP, QFK thinking, I think i'd let them.
FTFY.
 

The umpire

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#7
Saw it happen once, in a Scotland/Wales 6N match (well, didn't actually see it since we were 'treated' to numerous pointless shots of celebrations or replays). Scott (IIRC) Hastings caught the ball, sprinted for the middle and took a quick drop. I think it ended in a penalty aginst Wales for something - tackling player without the ball or not releasing the tackled player - not sure, it was a long time ago :)
 

chbg

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#8
Which is the home team? Everyone seems to be assuming Blue; it could easily be Red and the club routine for every match and every score. After all, it is the ball boy's moment of glory, delivering the ball to the centre, so there may be no ill intent at all. In the finals matches at the National Schools Sevens, a fresh ball is placed in the middle after every try by the organiser's ball boys. The referee has to make sure that he/she gets ready in good time!
 

Dickie E

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#10
Provided same ball is used AND considering that the clock is still running, why shouldn't the team wishing to get on with the game be prevented from doing so by the procrastinations of the other?..... This ideology seems to dovetail with all other QTI, QTP, QFK thinking, I think i'd let them.
Agree ... as long as it is same ball.
 

TigerCraig

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#11
Which is the home team? Everyone seems to be assuming Blue; it could easily be Red and the club routine for every match and every score. After all, it is the ball boy's moment of glory, delivering the ball to the centre, so there may be no ill intent at all. In the finals matches at the National Schools Sevens, a fresh ball is placed in the middle after every try by the organiser's ball boys. The referee has to make sure that he/she gets ready in good time!
it doesnt really matter. The Law says "a team" can't get an advantage from using a spare ball.
 

chbg

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#12
So how long do they have to wait for the other team to dawdle back into position? The referee does not blow his/her whistle to restart play (Law 6.A.7) so I am happy that they restart when they are ready - and I will make sure that I am ready for them too. If it is a standard procedure that a fresh ball is placed at the centre for each re-start (as at NSS finals), and particularly if Red are the home team, then wake up Red and play on. If it is Blue's ground, then on the first occasion it may well be appropriate to pull them back, but only on the first; I will be warning Red to be ready in time on the next occasion. And I will have a jaundiced view of Red's inactivity if I have managed to get in position for Blue's re-start, whilst Red have been celebrating the successful kick at the corner flag because they normally play with a round ball.

As so often, the context DOES matter.
 

Andrew1974

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#13
So how long do they have to wait for the other team to dawdle back into position?
If I'm back in the middle, have updated my scorecard and am ready to go then other other team have certainly had time to get back, same ball or not, off we go. If it's not the same ball then they can wait for me, if it's the same ball then I just need to hurry up if they want to take it quick.
 
#14
. So how long do they have to wait for the other team to dawdle back into position?
They have to wait for 'as long as' the referee considers that the other team havent commenced time wasting.

Once the other team go beyond that period, he should sanction for the offence.
 

OB..

, Advises in England
#15
They have to wait for 'as long as' the referee considers that the other team havent commenced time wasting.
Why?

Law 13 is a mess. As I have pointed out before, it carefully distinguishes a kick-off from a restart kick and then almost completely forgets about the restart. In particular the question of when a team can restart, given that the referee does not signal it, is not mentioned.
 
#16
Why?

Law 13 is a mess. As I have pointed out before, it carefully distinguishes a kick-off from a restart kick and then almost completely forgets about the restart. In particular the question of when a team can restart, given that the referee does not signal it, is not mentioned.
Sorry I meant to say " if new ball arrives, and the receiving team start dawdling into position ( knowing their oppo can't koff quickly) in effect running the clock down, then ......as per post #14
 

damo

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#19
Fairly obvious isn't it? At a PK, the whole of the kicking team is going to up near the kicker and chasing the kick in case it misses. For a conversion the whole team minus the kicker should be back on their side of the halfway line and ready. If they aren't ready to go by the time the other team run up for the restart then I have limited sympathy.
 

OB..

, Advises in England
#20
Fairly obvious isn't it? At a PK, the whole of the kicking team is going to up near the kicker and chasing the kick in case it misses. For a conversion the whole team minus the kicker should be back on their side of the halfway line and ready. If they aren't ready to go by the time the other team run up for the restart then I have limited sympathy.
In both cases the defending side start behind their own goal line. If they can get to halfway quickly, why can't their opponents?

Your position on the law is that the restart after a PK is formally different from a restart after a conversion. I am not comfortable with that.

(It is quite common at lower levels for some defending players to stay up near the halfway line during a conversion attempt. If the referee allows that, then I agree he should disallow any attempt to make a quick restart.)