Quick restart

Should ref allow play to continue?

  • Yes. Play recommences as soon as Blue takes the restart. Law is silent on fresh ball

    Votes: 4 10.5%
  • No. Bring players back as Blue has taken an unfair advantage using a new ball

    Votes: 34 89.5%

  • Total voters
    38

ChrisR

Player or Coach
#21
"In both cases the defending side start behind their own goal line. If they can get to halfway quickly, why can't their opponents?"

Not necessarily. On a long range PK they may have a couple deep but not all. I think damo's position has merit.

On the other hand if there is no prohibition against a quick restart and no requirement for all receivers to be behind their 10m then ..........
 
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OB..

, Advises in England
#22
"In both cases the defending side start at least 10m closer to their goal line than the attackers. If they can get to halfway quickly, why can't their opponents?"
Is that better? The kicking team are still better placed to get back into position.

The basic point is that the kicking team either have the right to delay the restart or they don't. IMHO they don't. Egregious time-wasting is a different issue.
 

Pegleg

Rugby Club Member
#23
Interesting. I'm in the "no quick restart with a different ball" camp. The inference is there in the law quoted re "gaining an advantage". What of the time wasting. Well again we have the "time wasting / delaying" laws to cover. So I'm not going to deny a side a short celebration (just because they do it is football is no reason to assume it is a bad thing) as long as they do not cause a silly delay. If I have time to do my score card get back to the middle etc then I'd expect both sides to be ready pretty soon.

Manage it. Don't make a rod for your own back.
 

OB..

, Advises in England
#24
Interesting. I'm in the "no quick restart with a different ball" camp. The inference is there in the law quoted re "gaining an advantage". What of the time wasting. Well again we have the "time wasting / delaying" laws to cover. So I'm not going to deny a side a short celebration (just because they do it is football is no reason to assume it is a bad thing) as long as they do not cause a silly delay. If I have time to do my score card get back to the middle etc then I'd expect both sides to be ready pretty soon.

Manage it. Don't make a rod for your own back.
If a team needs to take a quick restart because time is running out, why should they wait for the referee?
 

RobLev

Rugby Club Member
#25
If a team needs to take a quick restart because time is running out, why should they wait for the referee?
Presumably for the same reason that a referee will not wait for a team that doesn't want to take a quick restart because time is running out?

If the other team is time-wasting, then there are management tools to prevent that having an effect on the game. If it is not time-wasting, then the team taking the restart should not be permitted to take an unfair advantage; they should have scored earlier and more often.
 

crossref

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/england.p
#26
context is very important. in a professional game EVERY restart is taken with a different ball, so I don't think different ball is an issue. Normally the ball is placed at the centre even before the conversion is taken.
Here the fresh ball is a red herring it's just a quesiotn of whether or not - or how long - a team has to wait for the oppo (and the ref) to be 'ready'

at the grassroots level a fresh ball for a restart is unheard of, and I certainly wouldn't allow a team to use a fresh ball in order to take the oppo by surprise (as per the Law).
 

OB..

, Advises in England
#27
If the other team is time-wasting,
I think "time wasting" is a red herring. I am not talking about teams deliberately dawdling back, but about a team retiring fairly briskly when the opponents sprint up to the line to take the kick.
 

RobLev

Rugby Club Member
#28
I think "time wasting" is a red herring. I am not talking about teams deliberately dawdling back, but about a team retiring fairly briskly when the opponents sprint up to the line to take the kick.
If the other team are retiring fairly briskly, I don't see why they shouldn't be given time to get back into position before the kick is taken; as I said, if the restarting team feels under time pressure, they should reflect that they should have scored earleir and more often.
 

OB..

, Advises in England
#30
If the other team are retiring fairly briskly, I don't see why they shouldn't be given time to get back into position before the kick is taken; as I said, if the restarting team feels under time pressure, they should reflect that they should have scored earleir and more often.
I don't see that as a valid argument at all. The question is purely whether or not the team not taking the restart should be entitled to control the timing. I see no reason why they should.
 

OB..

, Advises in England
#31
With the original ball fine not with a new one. The question is abut using a different ball and the law covers it nicely.
If a different ball is used, there is no need for discussion. The law clearly covers the point.

The problem we are discussing now arises because Law 13 is defective. It is important because referees disagree, though fortunately it is a rare situation.
 

leaguerefaus

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/australia
#32
RL protocol is that the restart may be taken once all officials are in position. This works fine when you have a team of 3, but otherwise, a little common sense is required! If you have a To3 and the TJs have managed to run back and get into position, I'd say you should allow the restart.
 

Pegleg

Rugby Club Member
#33
If a different ball is used, there is no need for discussion. The law clearly covers the point.

The problem we are discussing now arises because Law 13 is defective. It is important because referees disagree, though fortunately it is a rare situation.
I do apologise for answering the Opening poster's question.

However, tao explain why I say the following in answer to the follow up point:
Pegleg said:
If I have time to do my score card get back to the middle etc then I'd expect both sides to be ready pretty soon.
If I am not ready the side runs the risk of "scoring" but I am not in a position to see the score. Do I award a try where I have doubt over the grounding?

I'm not going to dawdle back. If I'm there and ready I'd expect both sides to be and it is play on.

I've never had the problem in over 10 years in the middle. I'll not loose too much sleep over it.
 

Rushforth

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/holland.p
#39
In short, blue took it very quickly, I let them, most of red didn't even compete , blue scored, red were cross, I felt like a prat.
I've not witnessed this ever from a restart. Yes, you were a prat for a minute. Everybody makes mistakes. This particular mistake was not primarily yours, working on the assumption that you had reason to believe that blue WERE using the correct ball.