Can we please shoot the PC Brigade?

RobLev

Rugby Club Member
Define policitally correct in a way that includes an insistence that allowance not be made for minority religious mores - without defining away the meaning of the term itself, of course.
Or, to put it slightly differently:

You are at a tournament with a female team you coach. A referee announces that he is going to permit a Muslim women's team (and only that team) to compete in leggings and head-scarves, despite the fact that the Laws of the game make no allowance for that. Do you denounce that referee's decision as politically-correct twaddle, and insist that the same laws should apply to everyone and that if they want to live in New Zealand they should accept Kiwi mores, or do you say to yourself "Of course that's right, we have to make allowances for anyone's religious beliefs, however odd we personally might think them to be".
 
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Ian_Cook

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Define policitally correct in a way that includes an insistence that allowance not be made for minority religious mores - without defining away the meaning of the term itself, of course.
Political correctness refers to language, ideas, or directives which address perceived discrimination against economic, social or political groups, most prominently defined by age, race, creed, religion, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, and disability, or combination of such.
 

RobLev

Rugby Club Member
Political correctness refers to language, ideas, or directives which address perceived discrimination against economic, social or political groups, most prominently defined by age, race, creed, religion, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, and disability, or combination of such.
So you are politically correct? If not, why do you object to that approach?
 
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Ian_Cook

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So you are politically correct?
No.

This will be my last discussion with you on this subject as you clearly do not get it, and I have better things to do than try to explain the obvious to you; the same obvious that everyone else seems to get just fine.
 

RobLev

Rugby Club Member
No.

This will be my last discussion with you on this subject as you clearly do not get it, and I have better things to do than try to explain the obvious to you; the same obvious that everyone else seems to get just fine.
Ian. Be honest with yourself. If you had been the woman in the OP, you might not have gone to the police, which was a grotesque over-reaction; but would you truly have accepted that Muslim women players should have privileges that other players in the tournament were not to be permitted, privileges that the Laws do not grant them?
 

Constantine

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I think I was the first person to call NM's story into question - because people don't actually talk like that. I've read enough tall tales where it's PC gone mad! Or, uppity woman gets put in her place! To lead me to think some of the details of this account might have been exaggerated.

And you can't shoot the PC brigade because we're people and shooting people is generally murder.
 

Ian_Cook

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I think I was the first person to call NM's story into question - because people don't actually talk like that.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
- Hamlet; Act 1 Scene 5


How old are you again?

Well, I don't expect you to answer, but I can tell you for sure that, since you have only been on the planet for five minutes, you probably haven't had the experiences that some of us have had.

Outside of Rugby, I operate on the world of horses and ponies, particularly in relation to NZ Pony Clubs. If you think that "people don't actually talk like that", then I invite you to attend a few Pony Club One Day Events, Show Jumping Competitions and Mini-Shows; eventually, you will run into one of the nastiest, most aggressive and downright rude types of people you will ever encounter in the world of children's' sport... the "Angry Pony Club Mum". Never in all the time I have been involved in youth sport (about 25 years) have I been abused more than when I have incurred the wrath of a Pony Club Mother whose child I am perceived to have "wronged" by disqualification or demotion in a competition. I have been a District Commissioner (DC) of a Pony Club for several years (I have stood down now to the role Assistant DC), and I believe I have seen just about every kind of bad behaviour there is... I have been screamed at and spat at and threatened. I have been called distasteful names and on one occasion had a bucket of horse feed thrown at me.

I'm sure that Simon Thomas will be able to confirm that I am not alone in this as his good lady has also been a DC of an English Pony Club.


ETA: If you think I am making this stuff up

http://www.sportsground.co.nz/nelsonbayspc/98097/
 
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Dickie E

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Ian_Cook;274625eventually said:
"Angry Pony Club Mum".[/I] Never in all the time I have been involved in youth sport (about 25 years) have I been abused more than when I have incurred the wrath of a Pony Club Mother whose child I am perceived to have "wronged" by disqualification or demotion in a competition.
I can understand the long face but are you sure they're not just horsing around? :)
 

Constantine

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I'd estimate I've been around six minutes, but I do earn a living listening to people speak and writing it down.

How dare you differentiate on sex and religious grounds? If my players want to wear stockings, they will do so and you cannot stop them
This is the kind of thing that only exists in poorly scripted drama.

I don't doubt that the angry pony mum exists, and does nasty things, also angry overly invested rugby dad - he get in your face and screams (in my experience.)
 

Dixie

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would you truly have accepted that Muslim women players should have privileges that other players in the tournament were not to be permitted, privileges that the Laws do not grant them?
In a country where Sikhs and other turban wearers alone are excused the need to wear crash helmets when riding motor bikes, that doesn't seem such a far-fetched notion.
 

Ian_Cook

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No, I am asserting that calling the bar staff 'wench of the bar' is offensive. :)

No! Its not your call. You don't know that, and you can't know that unless you ask the bar staff member.

The only person who can decide if "wench of the bar" is offensive is the bar staff person themselves.
 

Simon Thomas

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Well, I don't expect you to answer, but I can tell you for sure that, since you have only been on the planet for five minutes, you probably haven't had the experiences that some of us have had........ the "Angry Pony Club Mum". Never in all the time I have been involved in youth sport (about 25 years) have I been abused more than when I have incurred the wrath of a Pony Club Mother whose child I am perceived to have "wronged" by disqualification or demotion in a competition. I have been a District Commissioner (DC) of a Pony Club for several years (I have stood down now to the role Assistant DC), and I believe I have seen just about every kind of bad behaviour there is... I have been screamed at and spat at and threatened. I have been called distasteful names and on one occasion had a bucket of horse feed thrown at me.

I'm sure that Simon Thomas will be able to confirm that I am not alone in this as his good lady has also been a DC of an English Pony Club.
Yes Mrs T was DC of the HH (Hampshire Hunt) Pony Club for six years, and we had two daughters who went through the age groups in one case competing at international levels. Up there it gets seriously nasty and the costs dwarf by a factor of ten, what it cost me to subsidise my other rugby playing daughter when she was training in Cardiff and London as she pushed for the national squad. In the horse world I regularly commentated, acted as Control, at up to regional level - even the worst rugby parents are angels compared to the horsey world. In UK we have the added complication of the class system, the urban-rural divide, north-v-South, and a self- perpetuating elite especially in show jumping (Whittakers, Smiths, Charles, etc).

It is as Ian describes and worse when faced with the irate Pony Club mother, rule book in hand and poor little Melissa Arbuthnot-Penburthy has been eliminated for three refusals at the water jump, or for "outside assistance" at the Foxes Leap fence.
 

Constantine

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Oh dear a trainee journo. I have never met more people divorced from reality than in the pubs of Fleet Street over the last 30 years.
Probably, but I'm a producer. I do a lot of transcription - you get a feel for natural speech. People don't talk like they do in books.

You also get to realise that the only reason rugby players sound halfway intelligent is we can't publish the terrible grammar or misused words which pepper their speech.
 

Blackberry

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Constantine, you are sooo lucky, you have yet to watch the Producers. I saw it in London, it was one one of the funniest shows ever. Constantine, get the DVD!