Why do the laws look so different in pro rugby?

Gracie

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/scotland.
#1
Never-ending penalty advantage (anywhere in the opposite half it seems), non-existent officiating of the back foot with players consistently ahead of the back foot, players flying over their own players at the breakdown and blockers going ahead of the breakdown, These are just some of the offences that no longer seem to exist in the pro game (and let's not even talk about the scrum put in).


It's been slippery slope for a while now but it seems to be getting worse. I hear the argument about 'entertainment' and flowing rugby, however ignoring offside seems to contrary to this as does airborne ruck entry. Please can we get consistency with the laws?
 

L'irlandais

, Promises to Referee in France
#2
In fairness the pro players don't like referee inconsistency much either.

Referee: Jaco Peyper (RSA)
Touch judges: John Lacey (IRE) & Luke Pearce (ENG)
TMO: Peter Fitzgibbon (IRE)


I think the offside line is one of many things he's missing. French coming in from the side and getting away with it.
French player (White 10) had no right to slow down Scotland's (28minute) penalty, reversing the penalty is simply encouraging them to continue such unfair play.
 
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Gracie

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/scotland.
#3
It wasn't just about the France v Scotland game but Peyper and his team are having a shocking game terribly inconsistent and pulling out decisions randomly
 

Pegleg

Rugby Club Member
#4
Never-ending penalty advantage (anywhere in the opposite half it seems), non-existent officiating of the back foot with players consistently ahead of the back foot, players flying over their own players at the breakdown and blockers going ahead of the breakdown, These are just some of the offences that no longer seem to exist in the pro game (and let's not even talk about the scrum put in).


It's been slippery slope for a while now but it seems to be getting worse. I hear the argument about 'entertainment' and flowing rugby, however ignoring offside seems to contrary to this as does airborne ruck entry. Please can we get consistency with the laws?

I've been banging on about this for a long time. Sorry, out of 6 games in the 6N I've watched no more that 10 mins in total. Thats' on the news and the like.

Admit it WR we have a two tier game with 2 law books. Let the pros go and have their own game and leave the propoer game to the grassroots.
 

L'irlandais

, Promises to Referee in France
#5
Sorry to quote a TV commentator, but
Alan Quinlan said:
This isn't the first time we've spoken Peyper like this. Earlier [last] year, he refereed the Ireland game in Paris and we all know what went on there. The incidents involving Yoann Maestri and Guilhem Guirado on Johnny Sexton and Dave Kearney again went unpunished by Peyper.

Players have to front up and take the flak when they make mistakes. It's important to remember that referees at the top level are getting paid. They must take some of the responsibility.
 

Wedgie

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/england.p
#7
Having discussed previously about the legality of crocodile rolls re: collapsing rucks, and come to consensus (compliance?) that as long as the bodies fall away from the ruck then this is acceptable. But in all the matches this w/e there does seem to be a lot of falling directly onto the first contesting man who is going for the ball, forcing them down and off their feet to get them out of the game. We should be penalising any first offence here...

On the plus side, we did see a clear example (on 13min?) where Scotland kick from their 22 and ball rolls into touch about 30m out from France line. It continues rolling past the 22 such that the quick throw in is taken within the French 22. After a couple of passes, the French kick the ball directly to touch and the call is that the ball was taken back, so Scottish line out is from ~15m out. :hap:
 

Nigib

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/england.p
#10
I saw the last 15 mins of the France Scotland game, and thought I saw several high tackles unpunished. Have we simply forgotten about the advice on HT we received on stone tablets at New Year or was it just the officials in this particular game?
 

crossref

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/england.p
#12
On the plus side, we did see a clear example (on 13min?) where Scotland kick from their 22 and ball rolls into touch about 30m out from France line. It continues rolling past the 22 such that the quick throw in is taken within the French 22. After a couple of passes, the French kick the ball directly to touch and the call is that the ball was taken back, so Scottish line out is from ~15m out. :hap:
I noticed that :)

but it was poor refereeing from Jaco -- when the QTI was taken there should have been a loud shout of 'Taken Back' -- I didn't hear one. Mentioning 'taken back' after they have kicked it seemed a bit of a gotcha
 
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Camquin

Rugby Club Member
#13
Fully pro,
Better drilled sides, fewer gaps and those gaps close sooner. So it is harder to score tries.
Fitter and the vogue is for bulk over pace - try to bludgeon through and over the opposition rather than rapier through the gaps that are not there.

At lower levels you can get a Phil Chesters who can just run round the opposition and score bucket loads of tries.


Kicker
Pro sides have a kicker who has practiced beforehand which spoils the fun.
Therefore any penalty in the opponents half is potentially 3 points.
Because the kicker will score more often than not - if a side has not scored they have not gained an advantage.
Therefore you play to earn penalties and in the extreme extent only risk running rugby when you have advantage.

Scrum
This might be controversial.

Pro referees completely kowtowed to coaches who wanted "the hit" and despite rewriting the laws have never got control back
The wonderful line "you have to take the pressure" which translated out of double think means the other side are pushing early but I have been told to stop worrying about that so I am going to give them a penalty unless you agree to cheat too.

Because the pressure comes on too early - hookers are not free to hook - therefore they do not hook, therefore the scrum half feeds.
The referee does not penalize the slight feed, in most case does not even both to look so it becomes a pronounced feed.

Referees also do not seem to insist on proper binds - or on the front row setting up square or level.
But they seem to be ale to spot slight changes of angle and decide one side is cheating more than the other.
 

Ian_Cook

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/newzealan
#14
I think the offside line is one of many things he's missing.
To be fair, I think that is a general malaise in the game.

Pillars, inside backs and outside backs are being allowed to infringe the HMF offside with absolute impunity at all elite levels of the game; domestic and international. Outside backs especially, are often being allowed up to a metre head start in rushing up to cut-off passes. There is no excuse for it, AR should be onto this pronto!
 

didds

, Resident Club Coach
#15
In fairness the pro players don't like referee inconsistency much either.

Referee: Jaco Peyper (RSA)
Touch judges: John Lacey (IRE) & Luke Pearce (ENG)
TMO: Peter Fitzgibbon (IRE)


I think the offside line is one of many things he's missing. French coming in from the side and getting away with it.
French player (White 10) had no right to slow down Scotland's (28minute) penalty, reversing the penalty is simply encouraging them to continue such unfair play.
And iirc the shove he reversed the pk for, was followed by a shove from the other side. So why not pk that 2nd shove?

Didds