Touched in flight

The Fat

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#81
For a player who is offside at the ruck and then interferes with play before being put onside - never back onside etc

But this is different. Say #7 Blue makes a tackle on Red. Ruck 1 forms which Red win, and then take the ball forward 10 yards, where they are tackled and a new ruck is formed (Ruck 2). As BLUE 7 is getting up he is still in front of Ruck 2 (closer to the opposition DBL) so is offside from that. But at Ruck 2 his teammate Blue 9 turns the ball over and carries the ball forward. When Blue 9 runs in front of Blue 7, Blue 7 is now onside and can receive the pass.

(similar to what happened with Yarde but without the injury, and assuming Blue 7 was never "loitering")
FTFY.
 

Ian_Cook

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#84
The main issue I have with the Marland Yarde scenario is not that he was in an offside position while being treated (which is indisputable), but its that when he saw the play heading his way, he got up and ran forwards.

LAW 11 DEFINITIONS
In general play, a player can be put onside either by an action of a team-mate or by
an action of an opponent. However, the offside player cannot be put onside if the
offside player
interferes with play; or moves forward, towards the ball, or fails to
move 10 metres away from the place where the ball lands.


LAW 11.1 OFFSIDE IN GENERAL PLAY
(a) A player who is in an offside position is liable to sanction only if the player does one of three
things:
• Interferes with play or,
Moves forward, towards the ball or
• Fails to comply with the 10-Metre Law (Law 11.4).


This means that he remained offside even when his teammate carrying the ball overtook him.

Had he got up and immediately started retiring, and kept doing so until made onside by an onside teammate before turning and running in support, I would have no problem with him taking part in play.
 
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crossref

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#87
The main issue I have with the Marland Yarde scenario is not that he was in an offside position while being treated (which is indisputable), but its that when he saw the play heading his way, he got up and ran forwards.

LAW 11 DEFINITIONS
In general play, a player can be put onside either by an action of a team-mate or by
an action of an opponent. However, the offside player cannot be put onside if the
offside player
interferes with play; or moves forward, towards the ball, or fails to
move 10 metres away from the place where the ball lands.


LAW 11.1 OFFSIDE IN GENERAL PLAY
(a) A player who is in an offside position is liable to sanction only if the player does one of three
things:
• Interferes with play or,
Moves forward, towards the ball or
• Fails to comply with the 10-Metre Law (Law 11.4).


This means that he remained offside even when his teammate carrying the ball overtook him.

Had he got up and immediately started retiring, and kept doing so until made onside by an onside teammate before turning and running in support, I would have no problem with him taking part in play.
BUT the laws say...

LAW 11 DEFINITIONS
In general play, a player can be put onside either by an action of a team-mate or by
an action of an opponent. However, the offside player cannot be put onside if the
offside player interferes with play; or moves forward, towards the ball, or fails to
move 10 metres away from the place where the ball lands.


LAW 11.1 OFFSIDE IN GENERAL PLAY
(a) A player who is in an offside position is liable to sanction only if the player does one of three
things:
• Interferes with play or,
• Moves forward, towards the ball or
• Fails to comply with the 10-Metre Law (Law 11.4).


he was moving forward, but away from the ball - doesn't that make a difference?
 

Ian_Cook

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#88
BUT the laws say...

LAW 11 DEFINITIONS
In general play, a player can be put onside either by an action of a team-mate or by
an action of an opponent. However, the offside player cannot be put onside if the
offside player interferes with play; or moves forward, towards the ball, or fails to
move 10 metres away from the place where the ball lands.


LAW 11.1 OFFSIDE IN GENERAL PLAY
(a) A player who is in an offside position is liable to sanction only if the player does one of three
things:
• Interferes with play or,
• Moves forward, towards the ball or
• Fails to comply with the 10-Metre Law (Law 11.4).


he was moving forward, but away from the ball - doesn't that make a difference?
No. The Law says "Moves forward, towards the ball, or fails to
move 10 metres away"


That doesn't mean he needs to move forwards AND towards the ball, it means if he moves forward OR towards the ball, he falls foul of the Law.

Think about it for a moment. If we took your reading of this, it would create a loophole for an offside player allowing him to run across the the field (i.e. not moving forwards) and pick up a loose ball. Would you be happy to allow that?


ETA

Scenario

Blue 10 kicks off, and the ball travels 20m, where Gold 5 jumps to catch the ball but knocks it on 5m. Gold 13 runs back from the 10m line and picks up the ball. Offside?

Not under your reading of the Law, because Gold 13 was not moving forwards AND towards the ball.
 
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Thunderhorse1986

Moderator Attention - New Usergroup Required
#89
Does the action of his team mate running in front of him with the ball not make him onside? He is now behind the player from his own team who last played the ball.

If the ball was kicked to where he was, or if the opposition had possession and passed it out to where he was, and it hadn't touched one of his own team, I agree he is definitely still offside.

But to me, once the ball carrier on his own team goes past him (towards the opposition DBL) then he is onside. You can debate exactly when MY got up in the example etc, but as a more general principle, would he be back onside as soon as his team mate the ball carrier runs in front of him?
 

Ian_Cook

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#90
Does the action of his team mate running in front of him with the ball not make him onside? He is now behind the player from his own team who last played the ball.
In this case, no.

11.1 OFFSIDE IN GENERAL PLAY
(a) A player who is in an offside position is liable to sanction only if the player does one of three things:
• Interferes with play or,
Moves forward, towards the ball or
• Fails to comply with the 10-Metre Law (Law 11.4).


Most important though is what is says in the offside definitions....

LAW 11 DEFINITIONS
In general play, a player can be put onside either by an action of a team-mate or by
an action of an opponent. However, the offside player cannot be put onside if the
offside player
interferes with play; or moves forward, towards the ball, or fails to
move 10 metres away from the place where the ball lands.


He can only be made onside if he is retiring or at the very least, remaining where he is until he is overtaken by an onside team mate. He is liable to sanction if he moves forward, which in effect, takes him further offside than he already was. Since Yarde moved forward after getting to his feet, and before he was made onside, he lost any chance to be made onside, whether by his teammate or by an opponent.
 

DocY

Rugby Club Member
#91
I'm surprised this is still going on. Isn't it pretty well understood that, in law, he could have been penalised?

The law Ian quotes is frequently ignored (13 passes to 14, who is behind him, and keeps on running forwards, 14 over takes him and gives the return pass - 13 is technically offside, but who'd ping him for that?), though is there for this sort of case. The ref must have just decided his moving forward was immaterial.