[6N] Tmo farce

crossref

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#81
I think Rolland shoots from the hip, and he too easily hangs his officials out to dry

Did he really make an error of Law or did he make a judgement too quickly and make an error of fact

Had Rolland told all the TMO at the beginning of the 6N that he didn't want a repeat of the autumn internationals and they should make decisions much more quickly (because I think that is what we are seeing )
 
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VM75

Player or Coach
#82
The game has 'progressed' to the point where sometimes a 'qualified' persons sits and reviews tv screens/replays & then makes a decision above the referee.

That's it, that's the decision. Game values = Respect whatever decision is made & move on.

I suspect Welsh have had the benefit of marginal stuff from time to time. I hope they take their revenge out on the Paddy's.
 

Drift

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#83
The referee agreed with the TMO.
The referee is the sole judge of fact and of law.

So the decision is correct.

I can't believe a group of referees are having a go at the officials when they can't even agree amongst themselves what the decision should have been.
Especially 3 days after the fact when the TMO has about 2-3 minutes to make a decision.
 

Dickie E

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#84
The referee agreed with the TMO.
The referee is the sole judge of fact and of law.

So the decision is correct.

I can't believe a group of referees are having a go at the officials when they can't even agree amongst themselves what the decision should have been.
the issue for me is TMO appears to take only a cursory interest in the potential knock on near the touchline. Like he was in a hurry to get a decision made or something. From referral to decision was < 1 minute.
 
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crossref

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#85
the issue for me is TMO appears to take only a cursory interest in the potential knock on near the touchline. Like he was in a hurry to get a decision made or something. From referral to decision was < 1 minute.
This is on the nose .. the whole decision felt strangely rushed. I do wonder if the TMOs have been told to be quick about it
 

Dixpat

Rugby Club Member
#86
Strange how World Rugby has commented on this decision but as I understand it the NZRFU are still waiting on feedback from WR on the contentious penalty no penalty in the 3rd Lions encounter
 

crossref

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#87
Strange how World Rugby has commented on this decision but as I understand it the NZRFU are still waiting on feedback from WR on the contentious penalty no penalty in the 3rd Lions encounter
I think the way they have worded the 2018 laws makes it clear they think the pk was correct

9.17. A player must not tackle, charge, pull, push or grasp an opponent whose feet are off the
ground.
 
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crossref

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#88
Eddie Jones nails it
Jones expressed his concern with World Rugby passing judgment on decisions retrospectively and highlighted the fact the governing body has a history of undermining its officials. During the 2015 World Cup World Rugby admitted the referee Craig -Joubert was wrong to award Australia a crucial last-gasp penalty in their quarter-final victory over Scotland.

Jones said: “I just think once the game’s done and dusted that’s the game, you can’t have retrospective refereeing of decisions being done. We’ve got to trust the referees, respect their integrity. When I say respect the referee, that’s the TV process as well, and then you leave it at that. One side’s won, one side’s lost.

“In Japan they have a great saying: at full-time there’s no side. That’s one of the traditions of rugby, you get on with it, you respect that decision. If you haven’t got the rub of the green, then you know you probably get it in the next couple of games. I think I have made myself very clear. The TMO did an excellent job.
 

Marc Wakeham

Moderator Attention - New Usergroup Required
#89
He says its over and done with and it is time to move on yet he comments on the TMO and enters the debate. Lets put aside Jones' hypocricy for a minute. Let's be fair ALL coaches would be bleating on about this. They als o moan when it is they who suffer and say "such is life " when they gain.

For me the principle is that post match evaluation of officials - just the same as players - must take place. BUT the employer should not allow performace revies to go outside the door. If it felt that an apology is due, then that should be made only on the strict understanding that the "wronged party, in this case Wales, do not publish it.

After all ther is a context issue. What did AR say?

1; Total balls up boys it was a try it is as simple as that!

2; Well on the question asked he should have given the try. BUT if the right question had been asked the knock on would have meant no try any way! So wrong question but right outcome.

or something else.

We don't have the context of the reply as, no doubt Wales will pot a positive spin on the comment. As no doubt England would have has it been the other way round.

Doong your washing in public is rarely a good idea.
 
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didds

, Resident Club Coach
#90
I think the way they have worded the 2018 laws makes it clear they think the pk was correct

9.17. A player must not tackle, charge, pull, push or grasp an opponent whose feet are off the
ground.
Yeah, agree CR. Admission via the back door maybe.

Though the problem here is that running players mainly have both feet off the floor during the action of running.

So technically and pedantically speaking many normal tackles should in theory be a PK. (obvs it won;t be because refs are sensible beings!)

didds
 

DocY

Rugby Club Member
#92
I think the way they have worded the 2018 laws makes it clear they think the pk was correct

9.17. A player must not tackle, charge, pull, push or grasp an opponent whose feet are off the
ground.
To me, this hasn't really changed and it was still a question of whether he jumped into the tackle. That the message that it was the wrong decision hasn't filtered down to us suggests they think it was correct, though.

But I'm sure the NZRU and WR have had this discussion and just didn't go to the press with the results of it! It's a far more useful discussion to have since it actually affects how the law should be interpreted and how players should play, rather than arguing about the facts of a specific situation.
 

crossref

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#93
He wasn't jumping into a tackle though , he was jumping to catch a poor pass.

Using the 2017 Law Book various posters here on rugby refs convinced me the decision was wrong

If the precise same thing happened in 2018 I think a PK is correct
 

Phil E

, Referees/Trains Referees in England
#94
:eek:fftopic:

Guys and Gals

Just to keep us on track can you take the jump tackle thread back to the original thread and keep this one clean please?

Ta
 

ChrisR

Player or Coach
#95
For the sake of transparency owning up to mistakes is important. It's not 'throwing the TMO under the bus'.

As a referee if you make a blunder do you admit it with "Sorry guys, my bad" or do you try to escape by distorting the laws?

C'mon the TMO is human but was he under pressure to get it right or make it quick? They can give the guy an out by reviewing process instead of just dumping it on him.
 

didds

, Resident Club Coach
#96
Is it just me or does the "WR announcement" seem a bit odd ? In that it wasn't released as a press release etc, but by Rob Howley reporting a phone call he'd had with Rolland?

The fact that Rolland hasn't denied the phone call seems to suggest that it is true - it just seems a very bizarre way for it to come out.

Unless of course RH was sworn to secrecy about it, but then he blabbed anyway, and as we speak he is having his testicles rearranged by WR's equivalent of the Spanish Inquisition...

didds
 

crossref

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#97
Of course it's odd
Rolland said it was an error of Law ? Really ? That implies that the TMO did see the Red hand get there first, but didn't think it counted as a grounding. But that's *not* what the TMO said .

Rolland also says it should have been a try .. so does that mean WR have determined that Evans didn't knock it on ? Everyone else seems to think he did.

Is it really a WR pronouncement , or is it Rolland
 

Marc Wakeham

Moderator Attention - New Usergroup Required
#98
Every single coach then? Every last man jack of us? 100%?

didds
I think you know that it was not a presentation of a verrified set of statistics. That said, at the level were are discussing (the pro game) I am sure the % is very close to, if not exactly, 100% yes.
 

Marc Wakeham

Moderator Attention - New Usergroup Required
#99
Of course it's odd
Rolland said it was an error of Law ? Really ? That implies that the TMO did see the Red hand get there first, but didn't think it counted as a grounding. But that's *not* what the TMO said .

Rolland also says it should have been a try .. so does that mean WR have determined that Evans didn't knock it on ? Everyone else seems to think he did.

Is it really a WR pronouncement , or is it Rolland
As I pointed out we do not have a full explanation of the decision that Rolland made. So no we don't know the answers to the questions My post possed.

Is it a true statement by Howler? Well I guess it would be firmly based in fact even if there is some license to it. Otherwise, I am sure, WR would have issued some sort of contra statement.

All this highlights how damaging this sort of information release is.
 

crossref

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:eek:fftopic:

Guys and Gals

Just to keep us on track can you take the jump tackle thread back to the original thread and keep this one clean please?

Ta
Sure but I think the on-topic element is that if WR are going to announce every TMO decision that is wrong, can we conclude that whenever they say nothing, the decision was correct ?
Or are WR actually keeping shtum about all decision s while Rolland throws the occasional official under a bus