[Law] Scrum ends

xxGoosexx

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#42
It was touched on during this thread and others but I don't think a consensus was reached - that is, what is ruled when the No.8 has the ball at his feet, unbinds and moves away from the scrum without picking up the ball?

Once he unbinds, the ball is in open play (behind the locks feet) so the ball must be out of the scrum as soon as he breaks away.

Had it happen twice last season - No.8 breaks blind without the ball then halfback takes the ball and goes open. The law says: Restricted practices at a scrum include: "
[FONT=fs_blakeregular]Scrum-half attempting to make an opponent believe the ball is out of the scrum when it is not.
" [/FONT]
[FONT=fs_blakeregular]so it's not the halfback dummying in anyway, he's quite legit.

- xxGoosexx[/FONT]
[FONT=fs_blakeregular][/FONT]
 

crossref

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#43
It was touched on during this thread and others but I don't think a consensus was reached - that is, what is ruled when the No.8 has the ball at his feet, unbinds and moves away from the scrum without picking up the ball?

Once he unbinds, the ball is in open play (behind the locks feet) so the ball must be out of the scrum as soon as he breaks away.

Had it happen twice last season - No.8 breaks blind without the ball then halfback takes the ball and goes open. The law says: Restricted practices at a scrum include: "
[FONT=fs_blakeregular]Scrum-half attempting to make an opponent believe the ball is out of the scrum when it is not.
" [/FONT]
[FONT=fs_blakeregular]so it's not the halfback dummying in anyway, he's quite legit.

- xxGoosexx[/FONT]
[FONT=fs_blakeregular][/FONT]
He can only unbind in order to pick up the ball
If he unbinds without picking it up, it's an offence: not remaining bound
 

Phil E

, Referees/Trains Referees in England
#44
Agreed.
He must unbind and pick up the ball in one motion, otherwise he has released his bind early.

Since the introduction of the ball being able to be played when its under the locks feet, I also get the No 8 playing the ball back with one hand, without releasing the bind with his other arm. This is not to pick up the ball but to bring it back for the SH. It's handling in the scrum, but I have been warning the first time as so many teams have been doing it that it must be a confusion over the change in law.
 

crossref

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#45
Agreed.
He must unbind and pick up the ball in one motion, otherwise he has released his bind early.

Since the introduction of the ball being able to be played when its under the locks feet, I also get the No 8 playing the ball back with one hand, without releasing the bind with his other arm. This is not to pick up the ball but to bring it back for the SH. It's handling in the scrum, but I have been warning the first time as so many teams have been doing it that it must be a confusion over the change in law.
How do these things spread ? Here in London last weekend I warned the 8 about doing exactly that
 

Phil E

, Referees/Trains Referees in England
#46
Well we went from This (2017):

(b) All players: Handling in the scrum. Players must not handle the ball in the scrum or pick it
up with their legs.
Sanction: Penalty kick


To This (Law Trial):

Handling in the scrum – exception
Law 20.9 (b)
The number eight shall be allowed to pick the ball from the feet of the second-rows.
Rationale: To promote continuity.


To This (2018):

24. Any player within the scrum may play the ball but only with their feet or lower legs and
they must not lift the ball. Sanction: Penalty.


So its no wonder people don't know what they can do.

I suspect when teams had the Law Trials talk No 8's saw the middle bit above and thought they could pull it back as well as pick it up. Trying to pick it up from the locks feet is difficult becasue as soon as the No 8 stop pushing to unbind the scrum gets nudged back and he then can't reach in for the ball (becasue its going away from him), so he tries to pull it back first and then play it...or just pull it back for the SH to play it.