Primary duties

Pegleg

Rugby Club Member
#61
It seemed clear to me the ref did not really believe it likely to be a RC because he doubted very much the reported stamp actually happened. He was calling the (perceived biased) AR out on the allegation giving the AR enough rope to hang himself and being very clear what the ramifications of the AR's call were.

didds
That's why you tell the AR that "on the basis of HIS report you are going to issue a Red Card. You make it clear that you saw nothing and the report makes it clear it was a red card offence.

You also then make a report to the society / union if oyu feel he failed in his duties. The Referee coach / assessor should also be made aware of your feelings.
 

Pegleg

Rugby Club Member
#62
Our regulations say that the club receiving a Red Card must report it to the County Disciplinary Secretary within 48 hours. That means the officials have no option but to submit a report themselves as well.
Ours don't but the grapevine gets the information back to the Society and referees are dealt with if the officials fail to report cards.
 

OB..

, Advises in England
#64
Incidentally any assessor would also have to give a report if he was at the game in an official capacity.
Not in England. I was at a game a couple of seasons back where the referee abandoned it after a full blown brawl. I offered to give my view if wanted, but heard nothing more. (I fully agreed with the report and disciplinary action, so no bother)
 

Pegleg

Rugby Club Member
#65
Not in England. I was at a game a couple of seasons back where the referee abandoned it after a full blown brawl. I offered to give my view if wanted, but heard nothing more. (I fully agreed with the report and disciplinary action, so no bother)
Just goes to support the care needed when giving advise across unions.
 

Pegleg

Rugby Club Member
#66
which I think was the point being made - whilst ensuring the AR's call was the reason.

didds
That's why you stick to the facts, as presented, and Say "on the basis of your report I am going to issue a Red / yellow card. You keep your thoughts to yourself.

The OP suggests that the Green captain was given to understand the ref was not happy with the ARs call. and they laugh at him now. That is not acceptable.

Keep it simple. Don't ask for recomendations unless the AR report is unclear. If it is clear repeat it and say why YOUR decision is. Remember it is the referee's cal even when action on a report. from an AR" Then make it clear how the decision was arrived at eg "I did not see the incident so based on the ARs report this is what I'm doing...".
 

Jarrod Burton

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/australia
#67
over here if the referee gives a RC for an incident he didn't see, but which was seen and reported by the AR, I would expect that both the Ref and the AR would have to write a report.

The ref's report being somewhat of a formality - "I didn't see it" - but required nonetheless.
Same here, our GF (I was AR1) had three red cards all on AR recommendations and we had to write the reports for it with the Ref writing "unsighted, sanction based on AR recommendation". Mine was for a headbutt, while the other guy had a late charge on the kicker and another guy kicking a player in the head. Spiteful game. Club that hadn't lost a game all year got knocked over by a team that played with 13 for 65 minutes.
 

Christy

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/ireland.p
#68
Same here, our GF (I was AR1) had three red cards all on AR recommendations and we had to write the reports for it with the Ref writing "unsighted, sanction based on AR recommendation". Mine was for a headbutt, while the other guy had a late charge on the kicker and another guy kicking a player in the head. Spiteful game. Club that hadn't lost a game all year got knocked over by a team that played with 13 for 65 minutes.
sounds like car crash stuff .
i hope the guy who kicked other in head got a life time ban .
and head butter also got lengthy ban .
 

Pegleg

Rugby Club Member
#69
For Refs with ARs this might be of use. FRom the guidlines we were given.

When an AR has flagged foul play the procedure to follow is:

  1. Keep Calm!
    Ensure sides are separated 2nd AR can marshal that while you talk to the reporting AR.
  2. The referee Leads to discussion at all times.
  3. Tell the AR what you have seen.
  4. Ask the AR to add anything that he has seen but that you missed.
  5. Tell the AR what your call is going to be. Based on the evidence as presented.
Eg.
“OK we’ve both seen the same thing. On the basis of what I saw I am thinking Penalty only / Yellow / Red. Do you agree?”
Or
“On the basis of your report, I am thinking Penalty only / Yellow / Red. Have I got that right?”
The AR has a chance to indicate whether you have missed something important.
Of course, you may wish to speak to both ARs in the process.
Finally tell the captain / players exactly what was seen and what the call is. Use phrases such as “Based on the AR’s report, this is what happened, and this is the outcome”.
Or
(if it is a call based on evidence you saw) “Red 5, I saw …. You leave me no choice! … etc)

You may then wish to ask captains to “speak to their players about discipline etc if you think it appropriate.
Perhaps it is easier as we don’t ever have “home ARs” so integrity is never really in question.

As the AR.

Stick to the facts when asked. If the referee's evidence show he's seen the same as you just confirm: "yep that what I saw" Do not offer a recomendation. Only give one IF the referee asks for you to do so.

THis came for a very senior guy in the "office". One who did not follow the advice on the field! After a pice of foul play seen by the entire stadium (I'm sure) his comment to the, then slightly more junior, referee as the ref was walking towards the touchline were "Fred. Blue 7 headbutted Black 9, As clear a red as you'll see." It was picked up clearly on the TV audio. Still it didn't harm either career.
 

OB..

, Advises in England
#70
Another piece of advice is for the AR to hold his flag in both hands to stop him gesticulating eg pointing to players, simulating a punch etc.
 

Jarrod Burton

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/australia
#72
And dont use it to wave to players to get back 10 etc.
When it comes to marking the 5/10m line I tend to hold an arm out (horizontal) point across the field on the line and when the last player is onside I'll drop it, or a quick gesture to a player who looks at me if they need to take another step or so. How do others do this?
 

Rushforth

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/holland.p
#74
When it comes to marking the 5/10m line I tend to hold an arm out (horizontal) point across the field on the line and when the last player is onside I'll drop it, or a quick gesture to a player who looks at me if they need to take another step or so. How do others do this?
Holding the arm straight out without a flag is the standard way. Ideally at early scrums, the defending (in the sense of not putting the ball in) are helped by both ARs on position, so that they all stand in line and can peek past the other backs to either side to see the guys running touch by leaning slightly forwards to see both ARs.

But otherwise, wave to move them back, and then once they realise that you are helping them get the right distance, a thumbs up. Just talking to the nearest winger can help, too.