prevents a quick throw

Blackberry

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#21
The way to avoid most of these instances is education.... many players at grass roots simply don't know you must stand back on the 5 metre line before you can contest / block a quick throw. Last season I mentioned this in my PMB's and also when I have been training with clubs (I have a really cool "Biggest Cock Ups" session). It does work as a rule, and immediately puts any future incident into Law 10 territory.
 

crossref

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/england.p
#22
The way to avoid most of these instances is education.... many players at grass roots simply don't know you must stand back on the 5 metre line before you can contest / block a quick throw.
do you think that's true? I am not sure.

I think they do know, but do it anyway as they mostly get away with it - especially if the QTI is abandoned as in the case in the game I watched.
 

chrismtl

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/canada.pn
#26
do you think that's true? I am not sure.

I think they do know, but do it anyway as they mostly get away with it - especially if the QTI is abandoned as in the case in the game I watched.
Most don't (where I live). In fact, most are clueless about the majority of the laws. Even the "high level" players complain about stuff like me marking a penalty inside the defensive 5m or inside 5m from touch, and I hear it every week as I'm a 9 who takes quick taps that I can't take the second penalty quick even though the ref has a mark set (even half the refs tell me I can't go quick twice). Now I will admit that England is a different story, and I expect that there's a much higher standard, but the simple truth is that most players and coaches where I live haven't even opened the law book once, or if they did it was 5+ years ago.
 

Na Madrai

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/england.p
#28
As a player, if I had possession of the ball and an opponent stood within the five meter area, I would regularly simply throw the ball in his face. I would be looking for the penalty, which was not always awarded, and for the retaliatory punch which was frequently forthcoming.

NM
 

crossref

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/england.p
#29
As a player, if I had possession of the ball and an opponent stood within the five meter area, I would regularly simply throw the ball in his face. I would be looking for the penalty, which was not always awarded, and for the retaliatory punch which was frequently forthcoming.

NM
Hmmm -- and as a referee if that happened in a game how would you handle it?
a) if there was a punch
b) if there wasn't

(serious question)
 

didds

, Resident Club Coach
#30
And if I was a ref (which thankfully i am not sir ;-) I may consider your act at least contrary to etc, and maybe even the same as a punch.

Not a very clever idea I might suggest. It is at the very least a provocative act, and assault.

didds
 

RobLev

Rugby Club Member
#31
As a player, if I had possession of the ball and an opponent stood within the five meter area, I would regularly simply throw the ball in his face. I would be looking for the penalty, which was not always awarded, and for the retaliatory punch which was frequently forthcoming.

...
I think you were actually looking for a Yellow Card; how often did you get one?
 

OB..

, Advises in England
#32
As a player, if I had possession of the ball and an opponent stood within the five meter area, I would regularly simply throw the ball in his face. I would be looking for the penalty, which was not always awarded, and for the retaliatory punch which was frequently forthcoming.

NM
As a referee I would award the PK and then call you both over. He would get a warning against doing it again; you would get a warning not act in such an unnecessarily provocative manner.
 

Simon Thomas

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/england.p
#33
As a player, if I had possession of the ball and an opponent stood within the five meter area, I would regularly simply throw the ball in his face. I would be looking for the penalty, which was not always awarded, and for the retaliatory punch which was frequently forthcoming.

NM
I usually aimed for gut or groin :biggrin:

and going off a slight tangent I did once pass the ball to hit a London Society referee on the side of his head - he had spent the match standing in the ball flightpath to my #10 - whether the fly half stood deep to take a kicking pass or flat for a postman / running pass the bloody ref would be there - IN THE WAY !

towards the end of the first half I had had enough, as I had to a few times dummy and run, to be taken apart by the oppo back-row. It was quite a serious level of match but the hit did reduce quite a few of us and oppo to laughter. The referee was very angry, but after explanations by skipper and fly half did stay out of the way (in what I now know to be the chariot position) thereafter.
 

RobLev

Rugby Club Member
#34
I usually aimed for gut or groin :biggrin:

and going off a slight tangent I did once pass the ball to hit a London Society referee on the side of his head - he had spent the match standing in the ball flightpath to my #10 - whether the fly half stood deep to take a kicking pass or flat for a postman / running pass the bloody ref would be there - IN THE WAY !

towards the end of the first half I had had enough, as I had to a few times dummy and run, to be taken apart by the oppo back-row. It was quite a serious level of match but the hit did reduce quite a few of us and oppo to laughter. The referee was very angry, but after explanations by skipper and fly half did stay out of the way (in what I now know to be the chariot position) thereafter.
Were you still on the pitch to take advantage?
 

Ian_Cook

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/newzealan
#35
As a player, if I had possession of the ball and an opponent stood within the five meter area, I would regularly simply throw the ball in his face. I would be looking for the penalty, which was not always awarded, and for the retaliatory punch which was frequently forthcoming.

NM
Hmmm -- and as a referee if that happened in a game how would you handle it?
a) if there was a punch
b) if there wasn't

(serious question)
And if I was a ref (which thankfully i am not sir ;-) I may consider your act at least contrary to etc, and maybe even the same as a punch.

Not a very clever idea I might suggest. It is at the very least a provocative act, and assault.

didds
I think you were actually looking for a Yellow Card; how often did you get one?
As a referee I would award the PK and then call you both over. He would get a warning against doing it again; you would get a warning not act in such an unnecessarily provocative manner.
So, I ask, what can a player do when an opponent continually infringes at the quick throw in, and the referee steadfastly refuses to do anything about it.

If it was me, as captain, I would ask the referee to stop the opponent doing it. If it continued, I would then be telling the referee that I expected him to penalise this player if he continues to infringe in this way, and if it still continued, I would be warning the referee that I intend to include reference to his refusal to do anything about it in my after-match report to his Association.

Having myself been on the wrong end of an adverse report from a team captain, I can say with some confidence that the last would likely have the desired effect., especially if (as happened in my case) my Assessor backed him up!
 
#36
Hmmm -- and as a referee if that happened in a game how would you handle it?
a) if there was a punch
b) if there wasn't

(serious question)
A) deal with the puncher as Law requires, any mitigation claims of provocation are dismissed by his deliberate offending in the 1st place.

B) PK against the obstructing player, and a word to the throwing teams capt "tell your players not to provoke &. Let me manage this - as i always penalise offenders!

C) note to self, must whistle earlier ! ....... Ie ..at the onset of the offence IF possible. Procrastination causes frustration & opportunity for subsequent reaction.
 

OB..

, Advises in England
#37
If it was me, as captain, I would ask the referee to stop the opponent doing it. If it continued, I would then be telling the referee that I expected him to penalise this player if he continues to infringe in this way, and if it still continued, I would be warning the referee that I intend to include reference to his refusal to do anything about it in my after-match report to his Association.
A risky approach. You would be backing your judgement as to what was legal against his, bearing in mind that law 6.A.4 (a) says he is right.
 

Ian_Cook

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/newzealan
#39
OB,
Is there anything captain can do in order to address an area of the game that a referee is either 'ignoring' or missing? If so ....how should he go about it?

...and particularly if the referee's continual ignoring of a Law or Laws is having a material effect on the game, and disadvantaging the captain's team.
 

OB..

, Advises in England
#40
OB,
Is there anything captain can do in order to address an area of the game that a referee is either 'ignoring' or missing? If so ....how should he go about it?
He could always ask the referee for clarification on a point of law. However if the referee is adamant, there is nothing more he can do during the match.