killing own player in lineout

The Fat

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#21
Ian's post above #4 has the Law references.
Law 19 - Not lowering your own player is specifically = FK.
Law 10 - general restriction on lifting players and lettig them fall on heads = PK
Law 19 doesn't specifically deal with bringing your own jumper safely, only when they must bring their jumper to the ground. That's why we are now getting guys posting what they have done/seen done and how it was justified.
 

Dixie

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#22
I don't think I would penalise a team for accidentally injuring their own player.
In the Englan v South Africa game, Dylan Harley was YC'd for stamping on a Saffer after the TMO suggested SW might like to reconsider his original limitation to a penalty award. Are you saying that if the player on the ground had been an England player, and DH had acted in the same way in the belief that he was stamping on a Saffer, that would not even be a penalty? If not, then presumably you are arguing that Law 10 (with the exception of 10.4(j) Ian so carefully notes) only intends to outlaw play that is dangerous to an opponent. Consequently, it is perfectly legal to punch the living daylights out of your own scrum half after he gives away a simple interception try; or to trip your own winger in the act of scoring, as he has taken the place of your mate who has been left on the bench this week. For me, 10.4 really ought to use the word "player" instead of "opponent" throughout. It exists to define the limits of acceptable play in the interests of a safe game; I doubt the iRB would feel comfortable asserting that you are at liberty to conduct dangerous operations against your own side when the LoTG specifically recognises those actions as being beyond the pale when performed against a player wearing a different coloured jersey.
 

TheBFG

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#23
19.10 OPTIONS AVAILABLE IN A LINEOUT
(g) Lowering a Player. Players who support a jumping team-mate must lower that player to
the ground as soon as the ball has been won by a player of either team.
Sanction: Free Kick on the 15-metre line
I would have thought this law was aimed at stopping teams from keeping a player in the air and potentially walking down the pitch with him up there, with the defenders unable to do anything about it?

As for the OP, I'd be having a word with the capt and his side not being such d!ck$ and looking after their own players :wink:
 

Ian_Cook

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#24
I would have thought this law was aimed at stopping teams from keeping a player in the air and potentially walking down the pitch with him up there, with the defenders unable to do anything about it?

As for the OP, I'd be having a word with the capt and his side not being such d!ck$ and looking after their own players :wink:
You should have read the rest of the post you quoted that from. Its more or less what I said.
 

menace

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#25
I agree. But surely it's contrary to good sportsmanship to drop your own team mate on his back/head - whether negligent or deliberate? (I'm using negligent implying that it's reasonable they should be aware that their action could cause injury)
 

RobLev

Rugby Club Member
#27
If the rationale for pinging a player under 19.10(g), who doesn't support his team-mate in that situation, is Dangerous Play, then why is it only a FK?
Is there also a subsidiary rationale; that having gained the (potential) advantage of putting your player up there, you must take the time to get him back down again - rather than just dropping him because if you don't you won't get to the oppo BC in time to tackle him?
 
#28
Law 19 doesn't specifically deal with bringing your own jumper safely, only when they must bring their jumper to the ground. That's why we are now getting guys posting what they have done/seen done and how it was justified.
I agree that the thrust of 19.10(g) is to not allow a player to be 'held in the air ' ( under protection from being tackled) for a protracted period of time, whilst opposition all await either the ball release or his eventual landing. This is a technical lineout offence and hense why its only a FK. It could even be considered as trying to encourage ( contrive? Draw?) The opposition into offending in some way.

10.4(j) is a law to ensure player safety, and I see no logical reason why it doesn't equally cover teammates as well as opposition, in the same way that if a player stamped on or punched a teammate then he should be sanctioned also.

In essence, all 'danger/player safety' laws apply to ALL players, irrespective of shirt colour.

In my matches, if the catcher is lifted and held whilst still retaining the ball the I shout "play it "( not "use it" - which infers 5s to do so) ..... If they don't react to my management guidance and then its a FK , and I'd add that rarely is anyone surprised by the FK.
 

Dickie E

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#29
In the Englan v South Africa game, ... against a player wearing a different coloured jersey.
I'm sure the distinction between deliberate and accidental is not lost on you.

A better parallel would be a player who attempts to fly hack the ball but as he does so a team mate dives on the ball copping a boot in the ribs for his troubles.