Flag up, ball not in touch

Rushforth

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/holland.p
#1
I made a mistake as a TJ yesterday. The side in possession had managed to keep the ball in play (90%+ likely they did, and I'm not interested in the <10% chance I was right after all) and raised my flag too soon.

Ref whistled immediately, presumably expecting the ball carrier to be jostled into touch much as I too had.

I recommended a scrum restart for the attacking side (BC was in oppo half, so no chance for confusion) to the (relatively inexperienced) ref, and there were no complaints.

There was no maul; the ball-carrier had what looked like a smother-tackler assisted by another defender.

The question: what would be correct decision if an AR makes the same error, and the (experienced) referee also whistles quickly?
 

crossref

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/england.p
#3
Isn't this a stoppage for an irregularity not covered by laws?
So I'd give scrum to team in possession

And a jug from the idiot touch judge :)
 

ctrainor

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/england.p
#4
Well done for admitting you made a mistake and well done to the teams for accepting it.
Definitely in most clubs you'd be dick of the day and in the post match drink off.
Scrum attacking seems the right call to me
 

crossref

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/england.p
#5
(d) Scrum after any other stoppage. After any other stoppage or irregularity not covered by Law, the team that was moving forward before the stoppage throws in the ball. If neither team was moving forward, the attacking team throws in the ball.
 

Rushforth

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/holland.p
#6
(d) Scrum after any other stoppage. After any other stoppage or irregularity not covered by Law, the team that was moving forward before the stoppage throws in the ball. If neither team was moving forward, the attacking team throws in the ball.
Thanks for helping me find 20.4 (d).

I'll be buying the ref a drink ;)
 

Taffy

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/england.p
#7
Ouch. Feel for you Rushforth. The first ever match I waved a flag for I made a right horlicks of it straight from the kick off.

I think its that funny feeling of many minutes of zero activity and then all of a sudden things burst into life on your line. Arghghgh!

Well done one for fessing up! Don't let it put you off.
 

Taff

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/wales.png
#8
Isn't this a stoppage for an irregularity not covered by laws? So I'd give scrum to team in possession.
+1. You can't very well give a LO if the ball wasn't it touch, but from my limited experience if you admit a mistake and explain the logic behind the restart, teams are very forgiving. Eg "Sorry boys. The touch judge reckons he boobed. Scrum down - attacking team ball". :redface:

Thanks for helping me find 20.4 (d).
Never ever forget 20.4(d) it will get you out of the poop more often than you want to admit to. :biggrin:
 

leaguerefaus

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/australia
#9
To be quite frank, if no one would realise, I wouldn't go admitting to that mistake. If they would, scrum moving forward.
 

leaguerefaus

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/australia
#13
As a side note, as a referee, if my TJ / AR put his flag up and then told me the person wasn't out, I'd be pretty damn pissed off.
 

crossref

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/england.p
#14
I once had an idiot TJ who put his flag up to signal a try (in the corner).

Obviously I awarded a line out.
TJ said 'No, he wasn't in touch! it was a try!'
'but you put your flag up?'
'sorry'

I gave the try.
 

Taff

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/wales.png
#15
I once had an idiot TJ who put his flag up to signal a try (in the corner).
Easily done; I've done it.

Player went over in the corner to score. Instinctively I put my hand up to indicate a try ... forgetting that I was a TJ and had a flag in it. The Ref was OK about it though. Sorry. :redface:
 

crossref

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/england.p
#16
the key thing for the ref to think of is: to make sure that the coaches and subs for the defending team, who are standing on the far touchline and clearly saw the flag, all understand what happened.
Otherwise they can become quite agitated, I found :)
 

Pegleg

Rugby Club Member
#17
so blue ball carrier is NOT in touch ... and it's a red lineout?

I think that's rather unfair to blue!

for me -- blue scrum
There's no happy solution. and the side going forward could be red, of course despite Bblue being the ball carrier etc.

"line out called guys we'll go with that." Followed by a suitable word with the guy running the flag.
 

tim White

, Referees in England
#18
A particular favourite of mine is TJ indicating the offside lines for the backs at scrum or lineout by holding his flag out horizontally- a perfect 'foul play' signal. So far not seen a ref blow for it -but it's only a matter of time. I tend to ask them 'not with the flag, please' and strangely they all seem to realise the mistake. :shrug:
 

didds

, Resident Club Coach
#19
There's no happy solution. and the side going forward could be red, of course despite Bblue being the ball carrier etc.

"line out called guys we'll go with that." Followed by a suitable word with the guy running the flag.
... who now knows that he can get "his side" out of the mire if he so chooses to do so via his flag. At least once anyway before you have him replaced.

Does football use potentially partisan team members to run the lines?



didds
 

Phil E

, Referees/Trains Referees in England
#20
There's a few people on this thread that shouldn't live in glass houses.

We have all made mistakes. The key is to be able to learn from them.......not have the ref growl at you.