[In-goal] drop kick restart into "In Goal"

sigates

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#1
I am a relatively new Ref. I came across a new issue today. does anyone have advice? there was a drop kick restart after a try. The ball went into the in goal area. A defender caught the bouncing ball and ran into touch, still within the in goal area. what is the correct way to restart the game?

thanks.
 

Taff

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#2
OK, I'll have a punt at this. I would say a 22m Drop Out.

Kicking the ball into in-goal is not an offence; neither is making it dead. So, the ball was put into in-goal by the kicker and made dead by the opponent.

I'm pretty sure the lawbook says there are options (Kick again or scrum back where the ball was kicked) if the ball was made dead "without delay" eg if the ball had gone in-goal and grounded "without delay" but in this case, it sounds as if the opponent played on so the options are scrapped, so the general rule - "Who put the ball in-goal" applies. How long is "without delay"? My guess it is a bit longer than "immediately" but not a lot longer. :biggrin:
 
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L'irlandais

, Promises to Referee in France
#3
This the one you mean?
12.9
If the ball is kicked into the opponents’ in-goal without touching any player and an opponent grounds the ball without delay or it goes dead through in-goal, the non-kicking team has the option of having the kick retaken or a scrum.
The usual problem with the Laws, it does not quite cover a defender taking the ball into touch in-goal.

12.11
Apart from at a kick-off or restart kick, if the ball is played or taken into in-goal by an attacking player and is made dead by an opponent, play is restarted with a 22-metre drop-out.
While the other variation excludes kick-off or restarts.
 
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Christy

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#4
Below from law book & laws as we know havent changed .
Even if tney read slightly different in new law book .

So for me it would be scrum or 22 to opposition .
Providing the player who ran out of play with the ball , did it himself & didnt pass to a team mate 1st .
He can even kick it out if he wants .
If he holds ball & stays in goal , waiting for kicking team to run all the way at him & then step out of field of play with the ball or kicks it out ,,with a smug look on his face .
I would go for 22 only .

Following a kick off or 22 kick off.
Where ball goes into opponents in goal , with out having 1st touched any other player

(b) If the opposing team grounds the ball, or if they make it dead, or if the ball becomes dead
by going into touch-in-goal, or on or over the dead ball line, they have two choices:
• To have a scrum formed at the centre, and they throw in the ball, or
• To have the other team kick off again.
(c) If they opt to ground the ball or make it dead, they must do so without delay. Any other
action with the ball by a defending player means the player has elected to play on.
(d) If the ball does not travel ten metres and ends up in the kicking team’s in-goal and:
• it is made dead by a defending player, or
• the ball goes into touch in goal, or
• lands on or over the dead ball line;
a 5-metre scrum is awarded and the attacking team throw in.
 

sigates

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#5
Hi all, thanks for the advice. I gave a 22 ( mainly a guess using logic), my main mistake was not to slow the game down and be clear in my decision. Still you live and learn. main leasrning point is to ignore the players and go with my own thoughts.

Another point: What if he had passed the ball? Christy you say that makes a difference?

Thanks
si
 

Marc Wakeham

Moderator Attention - New Usergroup Required
#6
Hi all, thanks for the advice. I gave a 22 ( mainly a guess using logic), my main mistake was not to slow the game down and be clear in my decision. Still you live and learn. main leasrning point is to ignore the players and go with my own thoughts.

Another point: What if he had passed the ball? Christy you say that makes a difference?

Thanks
si
The important bit:

Law book said:
(c) If they opt to ground the ball or make it dead, they must do so without delay. Any other
action with the ball by a defending player means the player has elected to play on
Passing it to another is hardly "without delay".

Even taking the ball over TIGL or the DBL. the action must be "without delay". So, let's say that Red 15 catches the ball 5 mtrs from the LH TIGL and he runs over to the RH TIGL that is not "without delay" for me. He has elected to play on. That judgement belongs to the referee.
 

crossref

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#7
I think a 22m was the correct decision, I am not sure that running it out counts as "without delay".
But I guess it depends how far he ran ?
 

Christy

<img src="http://www.rugbyrefs.com/flags/ireland.p
#8
Hi all, thanks for the advice. I gave a 22 ( mainly a guess using logic), my main mistake was not to slow the game down and be clear in my decision. Still you live and learn. main leasrning point is to ignore the players and go with my own thoughts.

Another point: What if he had passed the ball? Christy you say that makes a difference?

Thanks
si
Hi sig.
Red kick off from half way line ( or 22 restart ) ,,the ball travels all the way inside blue in goal .

Blue player goes inside his own in goal . And picks up ball , or catches a bouncing ball , whilst in side
His own in goal .

We are actually still in open play .
But the blue player has options .
He can ground the ball , kick ball over dead ball line or touch in goal .or even run off pitch with ball
This will result in scrum back or 22 . ( they will always take scrum ) ..

If blue player picks up ball & passes ball to his team mate , so they are both still inside in goal , he has now elected to play on .
So the scrum back option is now not available .

So if blue player who received pass , decides to ground ball in goal , or making it dead by carrying it over
Dead ball line or touch in goal line . This means they have elected to play on
They will only be awarded a 22 ( because it was still the attacking team who put the ball in opposition in goal )

If the pass was in fact intercepted by red attacking player & they ground the ball .
It will be their try .

Finally the blue player can simply if he chooses , with ball in hand run back into field and simply play rugby .. but then he has lost any rights to a 22 drop out .
If he was then to go back into his own in goal & make ball dead or ground ball .

We would now have a scrum with red put in ,, 5 meters in from try line .
 
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Marc Wakeham

Moderator Attention - New Usergroup Required
#9
I think a 22m was the correct decision, I am not sure that running it out counts as "without delay".
But I guess it depends how far he ran ?
Which is why I said:

Marc Wakeham said:
Even taking the ball over TIGL or the DBL. the action must be "without delay". So, let's say that Red 15 catches the ball 5 mtrs from the LH TIGL and he runs over to the RH TIGL that is not "without delay" for me. He has elected to play on. That judgement belongs to the referee.